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May 3, 2024 7:24 AM Subscribe
pornhub.com/video/search?search=tradwife
Rule 34 achieved.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:46 AM on May 3 [9 favorites]
Rule 34 achieved.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:46 AM on May 3 [9 favorites]
We found TikTok’s recommendation algorithm rapidly populated our FYP with conspiracy theory content and fearmongering, which made up nearly one-third of all videos served to the FYP.
In my experience, this is just how TikTok works, regardless of what you ask to see.
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:59 AM on May 3 [9 favorites]
In my experience, this is just how TikTok works, regardless of what you ask to see.
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:59 AM on May 3 [9 favorites]
In other news tradwitch influencers show shocking affinity for pointy hats and striped socks.
posted by thivaia at 8:00 AM on May 3 [10 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 8:00 AM on May 3 [10 favorites]
This whole thing is just so weird to me. Especially when they cosplay in 1950s housewife clothes.
posted by Kitteh at 8:05 AM on May 3 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:05 AM on May 3 [2 favorites]
You really can fool some of the people all of the time.
posted by tommasz at 8:08 AM on May 3 [9 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 8:08 AM on May 3 [9 favorites]
Seward Darby’s Sisters in Hate outlines the tradwife/white nationalist connection in detail.
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:10 AM on May 3 [3 favorites]
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:10 AM on May 3 [3 favorites]
it's super weird! like that one who goes on faux nooz and so much makeup!! I guess that fits with the 50s thing but not the biblical stuff or the homestead-y stuff. and they rely entirely on the internet for their audience and (presumably) income. ok, that makes sense /s.
posted by supermedusa at 8:17 AM on May 3
posted by supermedusa at 8:17 AM on May 3
I mean, I probably already know the answer, but unless you have the kind of husband who pulls in bank, how feasible can the tradwife thing be for women viewing this conent? Aside from the awful conspiracy theories, how can the way they live be attainable for their audience? At this point, I am surprised the awful and awfully rich don't have their own Tiktok-style media not open to plebes.
posted by Kitteh at 8:22 AM on May 3 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:22 AM on May 3 [2 favorites]
kitteh I think you've got this backwards. these wifeypoos are probably already very well-off via family money or rich hubbies. they probably also make $ on their content. but they need to show this perfect aspirational life to the plebes (who could never do it) to make it seem like anyone could, if you just do it right, try hard enough, be that perfect 50s babe. but it's not possible without money, and it's not fun if you cannot make others feel shame or envy that they do not have this perfect life.
posted by supermedusa at 8:28 AM on May 3 [14 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 8:28 AM on May 3 [14 favorites]
That's fair. So essentially, bootstrap your way to the tradwife life?
posted by Kitteh at 8:31 AM on May 3 [2 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:31 AM on May 3 [2 favorites]
The 'trad wives' I knew growing up in the 60s/70s wore polyester elastic-waisted pants around the house and only put on lipstick for (maybe) church. They did not coo about how they loved serving their husbands; their expressed emotions about their spouses ranged from mild annoyance to contempt to fear. Kids were just tossed outside and ignored as much as possible. It's easy to feel nostalgic for something that you never had to live through.
posted by LindsayIrene at 8:34 AM on May 3 [54 favorites]
posted by LindsayIrene at 8:34 AM on May 3 [54 favorites]
Rule 34 achieved.
I get that it's a joke but I'd posit that the number of people who are into the tradwife aesthetic for kink reasons (even if they don't know it / won't admit it) is probably significant.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:38 AM on May 3 [10 favorites]
I get that it's a joke but I'd posit that the number of people who are into the tradwife aesthetic for kink reasons (even if they don't know it / won't admit it) is probably significant.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:38 AM on May 3 [10 favorites]
but without the chain smoking and benzos and amphetamine diet pills you really can't trad-wife can you?
posted by djseafood at 8:48 AM on May 3 [30 favorites]
posted by djseafood at 8:48 AM on May 3 [30 favorites]
Oh for sure tradwife is a kink thing for a lot of folks. It's essentially an aesthetic variance to being a Sub. Take commands, do what he says, make sure everything is perfect for the Dom, then get railed in a sundress. For a lot of people, that is as close to heaven as they can find on this planet. Good for them! It's a shame that so much hate has to go along with it, though, but I'd imagine for a lot of folks admitting that it is indeed a kink is a bridge too far, so the shame and guilt and fear come out and suddenly you're spewing sovcit creed to a phone camera.
posted by Philipschall at 8:50 AM on May 3 [11 favorites]
posted by Philipschall at 8:50 AM on May 3 [11 favorites]
but without the chain smoking and benzos and amphetamine
It’s not as if they stopped making any of those things, though (legit) amphetamine is notably in short supply lately.
posted by atoxyl at 8:52 AM on May 3 [1 favorite]
It’s not as if they stopped making any of those things, though (legit) amphetamine is notably in short supply lately.
posted by atoxyl at 8:52 AM on May 3 [1 favorite]
Another example of what happens to a society when critical thinking is no longer taught... or even heard of.
Reminds me of that Charlie Brooker Year End Wide episode from 2018(???) Where the housewife becomes casually and accidentally radicalized by a White Power group online. I couldn't find a clip.
posted by Liquidwolf at 8:52 AM on May 3 [1 favorite]
Reminds me of that Charlie Brooker Year End Wide episode from 2018(???) Where the housewife becomes casually and accidentally radicalized by a White Power group online. I couldn't find a clip.
posted by Liquidwolf at 8:52 AM on May 3 [1 favorite]
pro tip: You can be sure the latest trend is a grift if it's not 5 minutes old and the people involved are already complaining about how long they have been hated and suffered for their lifestyle.
posted by hairless ape at 9:08 AM on May 3 [6 favorites]
posted by hairless ape at 9:08 AM on May 3 [6 favorites]
Now I know that every time I bake bread I'm pissing off Elites. Haha-they hate that shit!
posted by Liquidwolf at 9:22 AM on May 3 [5 favorites]
posted by Liquidwolf at 9:22 AM on May 3 [5 favorites]
Take commands, do what he says, make sure everything is perfect for the Dom, then get railed in a sundress.
As fantasies go, that's far from the worst.
As a kink thing this seems harmless, like anything else between consenting adults. But as a thing that ties to the conspiracy theory, far right, white power kind of stuff, there's a less harmless aspect. I'm sure some people keep this compartmentalized, but others clearly don't.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:27 AM on May 3 [7 favorites]
As fantasies go, that's far from the worst.
As a kink thing this seems harmless, like anything else between consenting adults. But as a thing that ties to the conspiracy theory, far right, white power kind of stuff, there's a less harmless aspect. I'm sure some people keep this compartmentalized, but others clearly don't.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:27 AM on May 3 [7 favorites]
This whole thing is just so weird to me. Especially when they cosplay in 1950s housewife clothes.
This is what happens when you remove all traces of rocking from rockabilly.
posted by FatherDagon at 9:33 AM on May 3 [32 favorites]
This is what happens when you remove all traces of rocking from rockabilly.
posted by FatherDagon at 9:33 AM on May 3 [32 favorites]
They are speaking to men at the same time as they are creating aspirational content for women. And let's not gloss over the fact that the most popular ones are very pretty. The Dallas tradwife who gets cited a lot is a flat-out hottie, bee-stung lips, model-perfect makeup, gorgeous fashions. She's so on it that she looks and acts AI generated. Young women do look at that and think, that looks pretty great. Aspirational, even, without thinking through the systems and politics and cultural rules that would make that work out in a way that is as fulfilling as it claims to be. And men spank to it. If it makes a lot of money, it's because it entertains men. And that's why all the conspiracy right-wing stuff is adjacent in the algo. Those audiences are horny for the idea that they could "keep" a hottie woman like this. It's very bad for the culture.
posted by amanda at 9:40 AM on May 3 [9 favorites]
posted by amanda at 9:40 AM on May 3 [9 favorites]
I mean, I probably already know the answer, but unless you have the kind of husband who pulls in bank, how feasible can the tradwife thing be for women viewing this conent? Aside from the awful conspiracy theories, how can the way they live be attainable for their audience? At this point, I am surprised the awful and awfully rich don't have their own Tiktok-style media not open to plebes.
supermedusa already covered this, but yeah, I think the key to this is that it's aspirational. Which is understandable! A whole lot of women grew up in households where this was, if not actually exhibited in this way, then at least understood as the ideal (and likely an ideal projected onto what they know/knew of their grandparents' lifestyle.) Actual adult life is hard and usually doesn't live up to the implicit promises we absorbed as children.
In that way, it's in the same vein as PUAs, workout bros, make-up tips, and even unboxing videos, fetishizing desirability, ideal bodies, ideal faces, and consumerism for an audience for whom those things will likely never be as attainable as they are for the content-creators. Or, looking at it from a different angle, its similar to the incel communities - drilling hard into the audience's narratives of how their life was supposed to be vis-a-vis entitlement to a certain kind of partner.
The big difference here being that there are a lot of men who get off on the idea of a TradWife (whereas if there are a lot of women who dig the idea of incels, I've never come across them.) And because of their natural spot on the conservative end of the spectrum, there's an inevitable performative persecution complex that goes along with it, which leads directly into the conspiracy theories, etc. Which is almost funny, since without the conspiracy theory element, I think the general leftist reaction to this wouldn't go much further than "you do you."
posted by Navelgazer at 10:05 AM on May 3 [7 favorites]
supermedusa already covered this, but yeah, I think the key to this is that it's aspirational. Which is understandable! A whole lot of women grew up in households where this was, if not actually exhibited in this way, then at least understood as the ideal (and likely an ideal projected onto what they know/knew of their grandparents' lifestyle.) Actual adult life is hard and usually doesn't live up to the implicit promises we absorbed as children.
In that way, it's in the same vein as PUAs, workout bros, make-up tips, and even unboxing videos, fetishizing desirability, ideal bodies, ideal faces, and consumerism for an audience for whom those things will likely never be as attainable as they are for the content-creators. Or, looking at it from a different angle, its similar to the incel communities - drilling hard into the audience's narratives of how their life was supposed to be vis-a-vis entitlement to a certain kind of partner.
The big difference here being that there are a lot of men who get off on the idea of a TradWife (whereas if there are a lot of women who dig the idea of incels, I've never come across them.) And because of their natural spot on the conservative end of the spectrum, there's an inevitable performative persecution complex that goes along with it, which leads directly into the conspiracy theories, etc. Which is almost funny, since without the conspiracy theory element, I think the general leftist reaction to this wouldn't go much further than "you do you."
posted by Navelgazer at 10:05 AM on May 3 [7 favorites]
Another example of what happens to a society when critical thinking is no longer taught... or even heard of.
I get the sentiment, but when was critical thinking ever taught, outside of senior-level philosophy classes?
posted by Thorzdad at 11:05 AM on May 3
I get the sentiment, but when was critical thinking ever taught, outside of senior-level philosophy classes?
posted by Thorzdad at 11:05 AM on May 3
The big difference here being that there are a lot of men who get off on the idea of a TradWife (whereas if there are a lot of women who dig the idea of incels, I've never come across them.)
While I agree there are commonalities in terms of how the two online communities and identities are constructed, the huge difference, as you note, is that one of them is constructed around amplifying traditional/normative ideas of attractiveness and gender relations (i.e., hot submissive wife, dominate male provider), and the other is constructed around a lack of those normative ideaas (i.e., a man who is rejected by women due to some mix of unattractiveness, inability to be in a "provider" role, outcompeted by other men, feminist ideology, etc.). So I think the comparison only goes so far, and there are probably other male online cultures/identities which might be more directly in line with the "tradwife" identity.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:43 AM on May 3 [3 favorites]
While I agree there are commonalities in terms of how the two online communities and identities are constructed, the huge difference, as you note, is that one of them is constructed around amplifying traditional/normative ideas of attractiveness and gender relations (i.e., hot submissive wife, dominate male provider), and the other is constructed around a lack of those normative ideaas (i.e., a man who is rejected by women due to some mix of unattractiveness, inability to be in a "provider" role, outcompeted by other men, feminist ideology, etc.). So I think the comparison only goes so far, and there are probably other male online cultures/identities which might be more directly in line with the "tradwife" identity.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:43 AM on May 3 [3 favorites]
Can you talk about the relationship between “tradlife” — short for the traditional lifestyle of wifely submissiveness — and the white-supremacist movement?
[Seward Darby:] I think that women in this space kind of go back to the idea of motherhood as cherished and unassailable. White-nationalist women are saying motherhood doesn’t have to be sullied by the muck of feminism, the workplace, and multiculturalism. You can just focus on being a cherished, hardworking, domestic goddess. In the white-nationalist movement, children, just like women, are kind of supposed to inspire this instinct to protect by all means necessary. It’s very much playing on this idea that they are the most vulnerable to social upheaval.
How White Nationalists Weaponize Motherhood (The Cut, from 2020)
posted by MonkeyToes at 11:44 AM on May 3 [7 favorites]
[Seward Darby:] I think that women in this space kind of go back to the idea of motherhood as cherished and unassailable. White-nationalist women are saying motherhood doesn’t have to be sullied by the muck of feminism, the workplace, and multiculturalism. You can just focus on being a cherished, hardworking, domestic goddess. In the white-nationalist movement, children, just like women, are kind of supposed to inspire this instinct to protect by all means necessary. It’s very much playing on this idea that they are the most vulnerable to social upheaval.
How White Nationalists Weaponize Motherhood (The Cut, from 2020)
posted by MonkeyToes at 11:44 AM on May 3 [7 favorites]
I too would like to turn my brain off for the internet lolz but i can’t possibly. Not in this economy! I have children to legitimately maintain!
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:58 AM on May 3
posted by St. Peepsburg at 11:58 AM on May 3
bootstrap your way to the tradwife life?
Pulling yourself up by your own corset hooks.
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:58 AM on May 3
Pulling yourself up by your own corset hooks.
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:58 AM on May 3
Rule 34 achieved.
You either die a stereotype or you live long enough to be come a fetish.
posted by mhoye at 12:12 PM on May 3 [7 favorites]
You either die a stereotype or you live long enough to be come a fetish.
posted by mhoye at 12:12 PM on May 3 [7 favorites]
I mean, if the TikTok algorithm pointed anywhere but far right content from tradwife content, it would be pretty badly broken. It's not so much a pipeline as it is identifying a Venn diagram with 100% overlap.
posted by whm at 12:30 PM on May 3 [3 favorites]
posted by whm at 12:30 PM on May 3 [3 favorites]
Everyone always thinks they are going to be the Commissioner's wife and not a Handmaiden / Slave ..
posted by Faintdreams at 12:45 PM on May 3 [6 favorites]
posted by Faintdreams at 12:45 PM on May 3 [6 favorites]
Not that everyone portraying / selling the Tradwife / Far Right Utopia actually buys into the rhetoric - a lot are in it for the Grift, but yeah the believers seem wilfully self-deluded
posted by Faintdreams at 12:46 PM on May 3
posted by Faintdreams at 12:46 PM on May 3
The headline seems somewhat misleading -- they don't seem to be quietly doing anything. The accounts in the article are of them openly, clearly and loudly promoting right wing conspiracy theories.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:31 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]
posted by jacquilynne at 1:31 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]
...they don't seem to be quietly doing anything. The accounts in the article are of them openly, clearly and loudly promoting right wing conspiracy theories.
I'm pretty sure "quietly" refers to the movement flying under most people's radar.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:48 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure "quietly" refers to the movement flying under most people's radar.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:48 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]
but without the chain smoking and benzos and amphetamine diet pills you really can't trad-wife can you?
The pursuit of happiness just seems a bore.
posted by non canadian guy at 2:46 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]
The pursuit of happiness just seems a bore.
posted by non canadian guy at 2:46 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]
Thinking about this more, and I don't think it is such an online phenomenon as the tradwifers, but in real life I've known a large number of what feel like the left-wing version of this. Heterosexual couples where the woman takes on a home role, with lots of canning and pickling and so on, sometimes a back-to-the-land vibe even in the city, and often homeschooling the kids, but all that with an anti-war, leftist sort of vibe, not white power. (I mean, this was pretty much my own family when I was a kid.)
At least in real life these days the leftie version seems to lack the overt sexual kink that the tradwife thing gets, though I'm reminded of plenty of "sexy hippy girl" imagery from decades ago which was plenty sexualized. Summer of love kinkiness, not 1950s kinkiness.
posted by Dip Flash at 2:55 PM on May 3
At least in real life these days the leftie version seems to lack the overt sexual kink that the tradwife thing gets, though I'm reminded of plenty of "sexy hippy girl" imagery from decades ago which was plenty sexualized. Summer of love kinkiness, not 1950s kinkiness.
posted by Dip Flash at 2:55 PM on May 3
bootstrap your way to the tradwife life?
Pulling yourself up by your own corset hooks.
flushing your ponytail
posted by chavenet at 2:59 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]
Pulling yourself up by your own corset hooks.
flushing your ponytail
posted by chavenet at 2:59 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]
In that way, it's in the same vein as PUAs, workout bros, make-up tips, and even unboxing videos, fetishizing desirability, ideal bodies, ideal faces, and consumerism for an audience for whom those things will likely never be as attainable as they are for the content-creators.
Yep, and as with all that stuff I think there's something of a cargo cult mentality at work where if you just look the part you're already halfway there. Like the third-rate middle school that pretends putting its students in uniforms will turn it into Groton or Andover.
posted by non canadian guy at 3:02 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]
Yep, and as with all that stuff I think there's something of a cargo cult mentality at work where if you just look the part you're already halfway there. Like the third-rate middle school that pretends putting its students in uniforms will turn it into Groton or Andover.
posted by non canadian guy at 3:02 PM on May 3 [1 favorite]
This article reinforces the skepticism I had about this previous mefi post.
posted by AlSweigart at 3:06 PM on May 3
posted by AlSweigart at 3:06 PM on May 3
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