Weekend 'Hackathon' at the IRS
April 7, 2025 2:02 PM Subscribe
Next week, DOGE and IRS leadership are expected to host dozens of engineers in DC so they can begin “ripping up the old systems” and building the API, an IRS engineering source tells WIRED. The goal is to have this task completed within 30 days. Sources say there have been multiple discussions about involving third-party cloud and software providers like Palantir in the implementation.
Initiating a plan like this would likely touch all data within the IRS, including taxpayer names, addresses, social security numbers, as well as tax return and employment data.
Currently, the IRS runs on dozens of disparate systems housed in on-premises data centers and in the cloud that are purposefully compartmentalized. Accessing these systems requires special permissions and workers are typically only granted access on a need-to-know basis.
Last Friday, DOGE suddenly placed around 50 IRS technologists on administrative leave. On Thursday, even more technologists were cut, including the director of cybersecurity architecture and implementation, deputy chief information security officer, and acting director of security risk management. IRS’s chief technology officer, Kaschit Pandya, is one of the few technology officials left at the agency, sources say.
Initiating a plan like this would likely touch all data within the IRS, including taxpayer names, addresses, social security numbers, as well as tax return and employment data.
Currently, the IRS runs on dozens of disparate systems housed in on-premises data centers and in the cloud that are purposefully compartmentalized. Accessing these systems requires special permissions and workers are typically only granted access on a need-to-know basis.
Last Friday, DOGE suddenly placed around 50 IRS technologists on administrative leave. On Thursday, even more technologists were cut, including the director of cybersecurity architecture and implementation, deputy chief information security officer, and acting director of security risk management. IRS’s chief technology officer, Kaschit Pandya, is one of the few technology officials left at the agency, sources say.
My friend who works in tech says this timeline is impossible, APIs are very hard, the entire project likely violates many data privacy laws, therefore it probably won't happen. I hope she's right.
posted by subdee at 2:07 PM on April 7 [6 favorites]
posted by subdee at 2:07 PM on April 7 [6 favorites]
I'm skeptical about that last part, but the rest of it sounds pretty much par for the course.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:10 PM on April 7 [4 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 2:10 PM on April 7 [4 favorites]
Just use MCP bro. We can write a couple servers and *BAM* instant access for everyone bro. No secrets bro.
Now let's get rid of those mag tapes bro with all the backup data bro.
posted by ryoshu at 2:11 PM on April 7 [8 favorites]
Now let's get rid of those mag tapes bro with all the backup data bro.
posted by ryoshu at 2:11 PM on April 7 [8 favorites]
Data privacy laws won’t stop them, but software engineering might. To paraphrase a quotable but problematic person: “For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for there is No Silver Bullet.”
posted by jedicus at 2:11 PM on April 7 [3 favorites]
posted by jedicus at 2:11 PM on April 7 [3 favorites]
I’m glad I already got my return this year. I was genuinely worried that Musk would mess with the IRS, and now he is.
posted by lizjohn at 2:13 PM on April 7 [4 favorites]
posted by lizjohn at 2:13 PM on April 7 [4 favorites]
Let hell open up and swallow its child, Silicon Valley
posted by jy4m at 2:15 PM on April 7 [12 favorites]
posted by jy4m at 2:15 PM on April 7 [12 favorites]
"Just use MCP bro. "
Aside: I really fucking hate we're using this now. I already hated that ML was shorthand for Machine Learning (and yeah I learned that it came before the ML language, but...) Master Control Program.
Stop reusing TLAs.
Now. STOP ELON MUSK also.
The "oh it won't happen" won't matter, they will do whatever the fuck they want. The only hope I have is that their destruction of archives won't include backups of code/data, but... I'm a more than a bit worried. It makes me so sick to my gut.
The thing is they don't need it to work even, they can just rip the fuck outta everything but a facade up (Potemkin Code?) and let it all break, which will conveniently serve their purposes anyways.
posted by symbioid at 2:15 PM on April 7 [3 favorites]
Aside: I really fucking hate we're using this now. I already hated that ML was shorthand for Machine Learning (and yeah I learned that it came before the ML language, but...) Master Control Program.
Stop reusing TLAs.
Now. STOP ELON MUSK also.
The "oh it won't happen" won't matter, they will do whatever the fuck they want. The only hope I have is that their destruction of archives won't include backups of code/data, but... I'm a more than a bit worried. It makes me so sick to my gut.
The thing is they don't need it to work even, they can just rip the fuck outta everything but a facade up (Potemkin Code?) and let it all break, which will conveniently serve their purposes anyways.
posted by symbioid at 2:15 PM on April 7 [3 favorites]
I don't understand the play here: if they break the IRS how will the gubmint receive our tithes? They haven't stopped wanting those, right?
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 2:23 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 2:23 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
Next week...like...the week taxes are due?
posted by mittens at 2:23 PM on April 7 [7 favorites]
posted by mittens at 2:23 PM on April 7 [7 favorites]
As a SAFE certified manager, god save us from the agile evangelical that thinks it's appropriate and necessary for every project.
posted by drewbage1847 at 2:25 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
posted by drewbage1847 at 2:25 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
If I were you I'd fill out IRS Form 4868 and drop it in the mail tomorrow.
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:34 PM on April 7 [3 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:34 PM on April 7 [3 favorites]
And, that said, you may or may not want to pay your taxes ahead of the late filing date. Others have already gone with this strategy:
"Officials at the IRS and Treasury Department are anticipating tax revenue to drop more than 10% by April 15 compared with last year, The Washington Post reported Saturday, citing three people with knowledge of the situation...posted by JoeZydeco at 2:37 PM on April 7 [5 favorites]
The loss of tax receipts is expected as more individuals and businesses don’t file taxes or attempt to avoid paying balances owed to the IRS. The amount of lost federal revenue could top $500 billion, the paper said. [...] The IRS has also noted increased chatter online from people saying they won’t pay taxes this year or will make aggressive claims they aren’t eligible for in a gamble that they won’t be audited, the Post reported."
I am once again frustrated by the credulous descriptions in the media that this is anything other than a deliberate attempt to wreck all of the systems and prevent the functioning of the state.
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:46 PM on April 7 [24 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 2:46 PM on April 7 [24 favorites]
He has also spoken about some aspects of these cuts publicly: "We've so far stopped work and cut about $1.5 billion from the modernization budget. Mostly projects that were going to continue to put us down the death spiral of complexity in our code base,"...Oh, easy peasy. Nothing says "simple" like building one mega API.
Corcos has discussed plans for DOGE to build “one new API to rule them all,” making IRS data more easily accessible for cloud platforms
posted by BungaDunga at 3:01 PM on April 7 [5 favorites]
Hoo, boy. Wait ‘till they discover all the corner cases. There’s 10000x more code devoted to handling corner cases than there is for “normal” processing. It’s corner cases all the way down. When the younglings figure that out, they’ll lose interest in the project. They’d have to explain to their AI coding assistants the ins and outs of each and every corner case, and the conditions for their resolutions. This is not a vibe coding project. It’d require real work, and who wants to do that?
posted by smcdow at 3:02 PM on April 7 [4 favorites]
posted by smcdow at 3:02 PM on April 7 [4 favorites]
how complex could it be?! it's only one API!! that's less than they currently have, so it's fewer APIs, therefore simpler. QED.
posted by BungaDunga at 3:02 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
posted by BungaDunga at 3:02 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
This is concerning for reasons much bigger than people getting their refunds on time. I get frustrated when people focus on refunds when that is a very, very small part of the whole equation. Also, not filing your own tax return or adjusting your withholdings to nothing don't seem very smart right now. They aren't going to break the penalty and interest system.
When we file someone's taxes and get a reject code, the odds are that they will need to talk to the IRS to clear it up. This is going to make it even harder for people to be able to do that. People have identity theft PINs and don't even know it, so picture them trying to get it in time to file. I've had people wait 3-4 weeks to get one in the mail.
posted by soelo at 3:10 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
When we file someone's taxes and get a reject code, the odds are that they will need to talk to the IRS to clear it up. This is going to make it even harder for people to be able to do that. People have identity theft PINs and don't even know it, so picture them trying to get it in time to file. I've had people wait 3-4 weeks to get one in the mail.
posted by soelo at 3:10 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
Folks that are saying it's too complicated to do right in this time frame are correct, but also, I'm assuming there will be no good faith effort to do it right. Every failed edge case is a refund they don't have to process.
Remember, these are the move fast and break things people.
I'm assuming the acronym for this project will be K.A.F.K.A.
posted by chromecow at 3:19 PM on April 7 [8 favorites]
Remember, these are the move fast and break things people.
I'm assuming the acronym for this project will be K.A.F.K.A.
posted by chromecow at 3:19 PM on April 7 [8 favorites]
I envision a day we're 36 million Americans are going to get hit with tax bills, liens, audits, etc. in one single day.
posted by clavdivs at 3:22 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 3:22 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
Why would you do this in the height of tax season? WTF.
Why would you do it at all? Well, that's obvious. But still!
posted by suelac at 3:22 PM on April 7
Why would you do it at all? Well, that's obvious. But still!
posted by suelac at 3:22 PM on April 7
> Every failed edge case is a refund they don't have to process.
Not necessarily. Unprocessed corner cases could also trigger required refunds.
> I'm assuming the acronym for this project will be K.A.F.K.A.
Please, no more kafka abuse
> Remember, these are the move fast and break things people.
I prefer to call them the "move fast and break other people's things" people.
posted by smcdow at 3:24 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
Not necessarily. Unprocessed corner cases could also trigger required refunds.
> I'm assuming the acronym for this project will be K.A.F.K.A.
Please, no more kafka abuse
> Remember, these are the move fast and break things people.
I prefer to call them the "move fast and break other people's things" people.
posted by smcdow at 3:24 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
How are they going to bail out exporters, prop up the stock market, or pay their SpaceX invoices, if they have no revenue because they fucked up the IRS?
posted by rustcrumb at 3:44 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
posted by rustcrumb at 3:44 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
Vibe Fascism
posted by AlbertCalavicci at 3:46 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
posted by AlbertCalavicci at 3:46 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
Anybody in software knows it is impossible to do this safely in 30 days, even for a system orders of magnitude less complicated and important than the IRS. These people are insane and incompetent, and we're all going to suffer for it.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:00 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 4:00 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
Of course it's impossible to do this. But this and the other DOGE rewrites aren't good faith efforts to rebuild or improve things. They are intentionally working to destroy the government.
posted by Nelson at 4:15 PM on April 7 [5 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 4:15 PM on April 7 [5 favorites]
It sure looks like a crime is about to take place and I sure hope some is documenting everything happening here for what hopefully will be a future case in criminal court.
posted by UN at 4:16 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
posted by UN at 4:16 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
This is terrifying and surely must violate privacy laws. I know someone who worked at the IRS and once typed his own social security number into the computer (not for nefarious reasons, it's just a number he knew, and if your job is to type soc security numbers into a computer all day, it's easy to space out and put your own in there. He said he'd almost done it dozens of times over the years.) This triggered an investigation and union negotiation that only just managed to keep him from being fired. I'm pretty sure I don't have the full story, but the point is that they do take that sort of thing seriously at the IRS, and unleashing DOGE on the agency strikes me as similar to lobbing hand grenades into the IRS server rooms.
posted by surlyben at 4:18 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
posted by surlyben at 4:18 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
C'mon - it's the 19th century again and we've got tariffs for revenue! The IRS is a vestigial agency.
posted by telepsism at 4:20 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
posted by telepsism at 4:20 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
I'd guess, from my armchair, that this is an interface for consolidated reporting and not a rewrite of operational systems. I'm sure the Palantirians or whatever mercenary gang of engineers won't exfiltrate anything they shouldn't.
posted by telepsism at 4:27 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
posted by telepsism at 4:27 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
Okay TFA says as much in the first sentence I'll read before I snarkpost next time.
posted by telepsism at 4:44 PM on April 7
posted by telepsism at 4:44 PM on April 7
UN: "It sure looks like a crime is about to take place and I sure hope some is documenting everything happening here for what hopefully will be a future case in criminal court."
if they're planning wars via Signal, they're doing coms for this thru Signal.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:46 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
if they're planning wars via Signal, they're doing coms for this thru Signal.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:46 PM on April 7 [1 favorite]
I predicted that when future kids turn their e-paper textbooks to the Trump administration is just going to be one big gif of that Deep Throat line from All the President's Men, "The truth is, these are not very bright guys and things got out of hand". That feels like the right thing to say about pretty much everything this administration's done so far.
posted by nangua at 5:23 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
posted by nangua at 5:23 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]
"The truth is, these are not very bright guys and things got out of hand".
That's what I can only hope will be the epitaph of the entire fucking Republican party. I just hope that the headstone isn't on a pile of bodies.
posted by Ickster at 5:38 PM on April 7
That's what I can only hope will be the epitaph of the entire fucking Republican party. I just hope that the headstone isn't on a pile of bodies.
posted by Ickster at 5:38 PM on April 7
How are they going to bail out exporters, prop up the stock market, or pay their SpaceX invoices, if they have no revenue because they fucked up the IRS?
[beads of sweat appear on Jerome Powell's brow]
posted by ryanrs at 5:43 PM on April 7
[beads of sweat appear on Jerome Powell's brow]
posted by ryanrs at 5:43 PM on April 7
30 Days? LOL
These stupid fucks just keep doing the stupidest fucking things...
But that seems to be their goal, break everything.
posted by Windopaene at 5:52 PM on April 7
These stupid fucks just keep doing the stupidest fucking things...
But that seems to be their goal, break everything.
posted by Windopaene at 5:52 PM on April 7
« Older Return of the Dire Wolf | You never saw him coming Newer »
See also: the project to use 'AI' to rewrite all 65 million lines of COBOL programming at the Social Security administration into something like Java which was posted here previously.
posted by subdee at 2:05 PM on April 7 [2 favorites]