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[–]Adi_San 2679 points2680 points  (37 children)

Gotta love the urban dictionary on this: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pedo%20guy

[–]racecaracecaracecar 1274 points1275 points  (14 children)

by ElonM

I'm dead.

[–]Blktiger0 [score hidden]  (2 children)

The entry below that one by Elongated Muds is pretty great, too

[–]wobblyweasel [score hidden]  (1 child)

I'm not quite sure it wasn't really him

[–]slim_scsi [score hidden]  (0 children)

And that's what makes Elon far more interesting than the typical CEO-entrepreneur-Tony Stark jagoff...

[–]JasonCox [score hidden]  (0 children)

You want your corpse shot into space? I know a guy...

[–]alex17595 110 points111 points  (5 children)

'get a pedo guy mug'

[–]BookstoreMasturbator 23 points24 points  (3 children)

ballsy assuming i dont already have one

[–]crwcomposer [score hidden]  (2 children)

Technically, any mug you own is a pedo guy mug.

[–]htbf 126 points127 points  (0 children)

This should be the top comment. Nobody cares about the rest.

[–]Dabsian 45 points46 points  (0 children)

Oh god thats hilarious

[–]slayer6112 [score hidden]  (0 children)

It don’t get no better haha

[–]Huckleberry_Sin [score hidden]  (0 children)

I had the literal best time ever reading that. Had me lmao

[–]JonVoightKampff 1021 points1022 points  (49 children)

Unsworth brought the suit against musk in September 2018

I'm amazed that they got to trial in a little over a year. In litigation terms, that's pretty much light speed.

[–]26_Charlie 155 points156 points  (7 children)

Yeah I was pretty shocked to see this headline so soon. I figured if the case was settled already, they must've asked for a summary judgement before discovery or something.

[–]O_Apples [score hidden]  (0 children)

Normally by the time these things go to trial I forgot it happened.

[–]LA_PI_Throwaway [score hidden]  (1 child)

In LA, no less. I'm a civil attorney that practices in CA, mainly SoCal, and LA is notorious for giving you trial dates that are way out, like 18-24 months after your filing date. LA also hands out trial continuances like candy. Both sides must have wanted this to just go to trial after any failed settlement discussions and not drag it out for this to be so quick.

E: I have so handled defamation cases, it's still often slow as hell.

[–]ughhhhh420 9620 points9621 points 24 (692 children)

If you're one of the many people on reddit who were convinced that musk would lose - here's why he won:

Defamation, in the US, requires that you be defamed, not just that someone said something bad about you. I'll give an example to show how this works.

Lets say that you're in a crowd of people and say "the guy in front of me is a pedophile!"

If the crowd turns around and beats that guy into a pulp then you've defamed him, because you've said something untrue about him that has resulted in him being harmed.

However, if the crowd turns around and beats you into a pulp then you haven't defamed anyone, because your false statements have only hurt yourself.

In musk's case, he said that the diver was a pedophile. But literally every single person in the world immediately told musk to go to hell. Because the diver didn't suffer any harm as a result of musk's false statements, he wasn't defamed and this was a very open and shut case - frankly it shouldn't have even gone to a jury.

Keep in mind, if you go to wikipedia to read up on defamation law what you're reading about is the state of defamation as it existed in England 100 years ago and to a certain extent continues to exist in England today. But the US hasn't followed the original English common law on defamation since the mid 1800's, and successful defamation suits in the US are so rare that they might as well not exist.

In other words, if you're reading about how you don't need to prove damages to win per se defamation or libel or whatever what you're reading is incredibly outdated as far as the US is concerned.

edit: and just because I know reddit too well I'll head this one off - yes, the US is made up of states that have different laws on this. But every state needs to meet the minimum requirements imposed by the 1st Amendment, which gives you the right to lie about people so long as you don't harm them.

[–]johnla 3278 points3279 points 2 (53 children)

Nice explanation, pedo guy

[–]Loli-Lord 1239 points1240 points  (34 children)

HE’S A FUCKING PEDO GET HIM

[–]johnla 659 points660 points  (15 children)

Don't or else I'll be defaming him.

[–]0b0011 248 points249 points  (8 children)

I downvoted him based on your original comment. This guy needs to hire a lawyer.

[–]diemunkiesdie 6 points7 points  (0 children)

So we should get you instead? We have to get someone!

[–]lawnchairsthelazy 4 points5 points  (1 child)

It's ok, no need to be humble. Reddit will get this guy for you. You'll be a hero!

[–]xxfay6 28 points29 points  (2 children)

*punches relevant username /u/Loli-Lord*

[–]strayakant [score hidden]  (1 child)

he’s not turned into pulp yet!! Keep beating!

[–]AwefulWaffle 30 points31 points  (2 children)

Yeah? Well you're a fucking Loli Lord, pedo.

[–]Rudy_Ghouliani [score hidden]  (0 children)

Yeah but that Loli is a 1000 year old vampire, its totally cool. Don't call the lolice please.

[–]puljujarvifan 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Now he's going to appeal on the basis that losing this case makes him look like a pedo!

[–]anGub 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No need to beat a guy up for being a fast swimmer...

[–]Rrdro 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I believe you. That guy must definitely be a pedo. Should we defame him? Johnla you saved us all.

[–]iMakeLuvWithDolphins 3521 points3522 points  (108 children)

Thanks for the writeup, I assumed the diver had a bulletproof case but in reality it shattered as easily as a cybertruck.

[–]unique_useyourname 594 points595 points  (25 children)

Shots fired

[–]stklaw 375 points376 points  (13 children)

Balls thrown

[–]solocupjazz 20 points21 points  (2 children)

That didn't happen in rehearsal

[–]PM_ME_UR_RSA_KEY [score hidden]  (1 child)

Allegedly that happened because they sladgehammered the chassis first, and the glass was cracked at its edge (the weakest part of tempered glass) so it was significantly weakened.

Note to would-be highwayman: Shoot the door first, then the glass.

[–]LeonardSmallsJr 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Balls busted

[–]ohboiarock 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Satisfaction met

[–]AskMeForADadJoke 21 points22 points  (6 children)

You mean like a kind of heavy ish metal ball tossed lightly?

[–]npequalsplols 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It in fact takes someone with balls of steel to do that

[–]bumjiggy 17 points18 points  (3 children)

tbf they said it was bullet proof not ball bearing

[–]pman8080 29 points30 points  (2 children)

They never said the glass was bullet proof just the body

[–]Endryu-85 75 points76 points  (16 children)

Careful, you don't want a defamation case on your hands.

[–]phoneredditacct117 98 points99 points  (13 children)

Reddit legal expert here, he never declared that the cybertruck was a "pedo truck" so zipso de facto, no defamation case can stand.

[–]hoxxxxx 6 points7 points  (1 child)

i have a weird feeling that musk would win a defamation case against a regular working/middle class redditor.

[–]biznizexecwat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But what about a regular diving/under sea redditor?

[–]pollorojo[🍰] 15 points16 points  (4 children)

Ok see now you’re gonna get sued for defamation.

[–]bush- 46 points47 points  (39 children)

Yeah, if you had heard of court cases like Hustler Magazine v. Falwell, or Snyder v. Phelps, then this isn't a surprise. I kind of guessed this guy would lose his case. Saying things about someone that people won't believe and was not intended to be believed, don't count as defamation. I think most could tell musk calling him "pedo guy" was on par with being called a "Nazi", "fascist", "commie", "prostitute". These are just insults, not assertions that your targets are literally those things.

[–]NoRecord6[S] 35 points36 points  (29 children)

A journalist from Canada got called a "Neo-Nazi" and sued the guy. He had to post a public apology to her on twitter and pay $1,200. Now, I don't think that's right, because generally I agree with the American version of defamation, but it's funny and shows how countries differ in respect to defamation.

[–]FreediveAlive 4 points5 points  (0 children)

May have been able to prove they harm came to him, in the form of career reputation.

[–]AshingiiAshuaa 23 points24 points  (4 children)

If he'd have called him a cocksucking, shit eating, mother fucker I'd agree that these were just figures of speech. I also get hyperbole.

But this was a middle aged dude chilling in Thailand. Add also you don't call someone a "pedo" unless you're specifically implying pedo.

I'm not saying musk should have been on the hook for big cash, but to me this was a pretty specific, non-hyperbolic insult.

[–]thedailyrant [score hidden]  (0 children)

This is quite true. Not only was he in Thailand, but he regularly traveled to Thailand if I'm not mistaken. Given that fact, could it not be argued that musk's comments did indeed intend to defame the individual? If he just said 'what a cunt, I'm just trying to help', it would certainly be a different matter.

[–]Protostar23 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Elon musk has sued you for defamation.

[–]WalseOp1 662 points663 points  (40 children)

Don't forget the part where it requires the defamatory statement to untrue

If Bill Gates ever calls me a pangolin-fucking hobgoblin I'm not letting that shit go to discovery

[–]Hautamaki 182 points183 points  (12 children)

If Bill Gates ever does that it could be one of the most upvoted posts in history lol

[–]Thousandtree 47 points48 points  (11 children)

It will never top "Bill Gates called EA a bunch of pangolin-fucking hobgoblins" though.

[–]Jdm5544 4 points5 points  (7 children)

Just because this is reddit and that is possible, did he? And if so, when?

[–]khaddy 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Is there a way to summon Bill Gates then maybe we can make this happen!

[–]Syn7axError 50 points51 points  (15 children)

Not quite. It requires the statement be done knowingly with no basis. It might even end up being true, it's whether you could have possibly known about that evidence.

[–]Xylth 55 points56 points  (14 children)

I'd always heard that truth is an absolute defense to libel/slander in the US, was I misinformed?

[–]VerySecretCactus 39 points40 points  (8 children)

No, I think you're right and he's wrong. The Zenger trial paved the way for this. And then this:

The 1964 case New York Times Co. v. Sullivan dramatically altered the nature of libel law in the United States by elevating the fault element for public officials to actual malice—that is, public figures could win a libel suit only if they could demonstrate the publisher's "knowledge that the information was false" or that the information was published "with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not".[132]

[–]Syn7axError 17 points18 points  (4 children)

"with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not" is exactly what I'm talking about.

[–]eagerson 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Libel/slander, yes, but not necessarily defamation. Even so, that's generally understood to be the case in most jurisdictions, but it's actually not settled case law. About a decade ago, the 1st Circuit Court in Massachusetts ruled that under MA law, something could be defamatory even if true. However, my understanding is that most legal scholars were and are critical of that ruling, since it would appear to contradict the 1st Amendment.

The ruling emphasized damage, not veracity, so it's also slightly different than what the other comment was describing. In the MA ruling, it's irrelevant whether the defendant knew the statement to be true. However, if there even are cases where knowledge of the truth is relevant, having something actually be true makes the defense fairly trivial. At that point, it would likely be enough to say "I had a gut feeling" or "I could have sworn I heard a rumor to that effect" and, given that the thing is actually true, who could reasonably prove that it's impossible for ANYONE to have known?

[–]Chimcan 267 points268 points  (140 children)

IANAL - I'm still surprised that they weren't able to show some sort of harm in court.

An influential figure with a small cult following called someone a pedo - I would have assumed there would have been some hate mail or death threats that could be reasonably spun into harm.

[–]polyscifail 198 points199 points  (73 children)

How much is that worth? Not millions. The guy probably hurt his case by seeking so much money. Go after $100K / $500K and it would probably look a lot better.

I had to hire a PR firm, I had to hire a lawyer, I had to pay for an alarm system. But, it's hard to say he had $5M in actual damages.

[–]carterja 208 points209 points  (32 children)

he asked for $190M.. even $5M would have been more realistic than 190!!

[–]HarleyWeaver 26 points27 points  (1 child)

The asking amount is always a wild fantasy in a lawsuit. First the jury has to decide whether the defendant is liable for damages, and then the award amount is determined.

There have been cases where juries have awarded ridiculously low amounts in mockery of a plaintiff's claim.

[–]xug 69 points70 points  (2 children)

He did ask for 5million. There were 3 types of damages requested within the claim. The total was 190

[–]carterja 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Oh I thought it was $140M and $50M to total 190. Whoops

[–]MaliciousLegroomMelo 51 points52 points  (23 children)

This is a misunderstanding. There are different kinds of damages. Some damages are for losses like loss of one's job and reduction of future income potential. But other damages are to teach the offender a lesson and the goal is that they be strong enough to make them cease their bad conduct. These are called punitive damages. When you have a wealthy asshole like Elon musk, the size of the punitive damage must be large enough that it tells him he can't go around calling everyone a pedophile. That's where the amount you're erroneously interpreting comes from.

[–]britishhoe29 27 points28 points  (19 children)

I thought you always ask a high figure then it gets reduced after?

[–]2fingers 45 points46 points  (0 children)

Gets reduced to zero if you lose

[–]s0x00 24 points25 points  (14 children)

Before the lawyer of Unsworth said how much money they wanted the lawyers of musk tried to paint Unsworth and his lawyer as greedy. So asking for that much money might have backfired. People on the Jury might not like to give someone 190 Million dollars when they think they might be greedy.

[–]I-Do-Math 33 points34 points  (11 children)

I never saw what musks lawyers said about Unsworth.

The moment I saw 190 million figure I thought what a greedy moron. How the fuck a middle-class person sustain such damage through a twitter post?

[–]ArcticISAF 19 points20 points  (4 children)

Looks like the real defamation here was self-inflicted.

[–]Pocchari_Kevin 25 points26 points  (2 children)

You have to prove you would be losing 190M by being called a pedophile, this dude had no proof his business would lose even half a percentage of that lifetime. Juries often award higher amounts that a judge can reduce if its extreme too.

You usually ask for higher than you might expect, but you still need to explain to a jury why they deserve that.

[–]MaliciousLegroomMelo 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Wrong. Most of that was punitive damages, an amount that is designed to fit the assets of the offender so as to stop them from repeating the conduct. Elon musk having to pay $1 million for everyone he lies about wouldn't even slow him down, whereas it would probably make the average person stop. But if musk had to pay it $200 million more than a couple of times, he'd start to feel it and might slow down his misconduct.

[–]tengukaze 17 points18 points  (2 children)

We get it.. you have anal sex

[–]SherbetGilt 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Doesn't the us have defamation per se though?

[–]tangential_quip 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yes, it does but it can be pretty limited depending on the state.

[–]yerFACE 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Your username juxtaposed and mirrored this and I had a good laugh. Nice write up.

[–]docmedic 74 points75 points  (25 children)

But literally every single person in the world immediately told musk to go to hell. Because the diver didn't suffer any harm as a result of musk's false statements, he wasn't defamed and this was a very open and shut case - frankly it shouldn't have even gone to a jury.

Well, in actuality, a bunch of musk fans tried to further prove the false accusations (while flaunting about how Thailand really is only worth anything because of child prostitutes). The law seems to consider this level of harm a nonissue. Not every person is sane as you painted it, literally.

[–]Rinscher 24 points25 points  (0 children)

a bunch of musk fans tried to further prove the false accusations (while flaunting about how Thailand really is only worth anything because of child prostitutes). The law seems to consider this level of harm a nonissue.

You'd have to prove that their attempts were harmful.

[–]SendEldritchHorrors 60 points61 points  (25 children)

I don't think you're wrong, but I do think it's funny how quickly you're being upvoted. Reddit is full of people that rightfully hates false accusers, saying that they have the potential to ruin lives. Some people say that false accusers should get the sentence the falsely accused would have gotten were they convicted.

But now that Elon musk didn't cause any actual harm, people are acting like things are hunky-dory. Like, hooray, he didn't ruin the guy's life! But his comments definitely had the potential to.

[–]Reynolds-RumHam2020 26 points27 points  (15 children)

Yeah. And half of Reddit calls joe Biden a pedophile and thinks Hillary Clinton has people murdered. It’s nuts.

[–]Nootoobs 4 points5 points  (0 children)

And Elon was friends with Epstein

[–]myothercarisnicer 65 points66 points  (18 children)

Kind of. Defamation per se is still a thing in some places (including CA, but I'm not sure where this trial was), when something is so awful it is defamatory even without proving damages. Calling someone a pedophile would presumably count.

I think the better argument is that this was an insult, not a statement to be taken as fact. For instance, if you call someone a bastard, you aren't usually literally saying they were born illegitimately.

[–]Throwaway_Consoles 28 points29 points  (1 child)

If this was just an insult then what was this whole thing all about?

[–]honeywhite 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The difference is in the "seriousness" of what's being said. If I told all my friends you're a cocksucker, that's not defamation, because it's "mere argumentative hyperbole", i.e. a vulgar insult that merely reflects my displeasure. If I told all my friends "this guy gives $5 blowjobs on Times Square", that would be defamatory, depending on where I said it. In the UK, it's enough to prove that a notional reasonable person would stay away from you, based on what I said; in the US, you'd have to prove that you were in fact harmed.

[–]SingularityCentral 20 points21 points  (1 child)

This is the crux of the thing. Since it went to a jury it is more likely they thought the whole thing was a silly Twitter spat. That does comport with the law, because argumentative hyperbole is perfectly allowed. Calling some a "fucking twat" or a "moronic nitwit" or "the most immoral man alive" sound like defamation, but words spoken in argument are not typically defaming. Now, sending a letter to someone's employee detailing fictitious criminal acts they performed would be defaming. This is just Twitter insults, the whole lawsuit was ludicrous.

[–]whatisthisnowwhat1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nice words but

That means: Can a reasonable person who read musk's tweets know for sure it was about Unsworth? The jury decided that the person couldn't and based their decision mainly on that. They were unanimous on this and moved quickly once establishing (less than an hour).

https://twitter.com/RMac18/status/1203106544746762240

  1. statements had to be made to someone other than Unsworth
  2. statements had to be understood to be about Unsworth
  3. statements had to be understood to mean Unsworth was a pedophile
  4. statements had to be false
  5. musk was reckless in not determining it was true

https://twitter.com/mslopatto/status/1203137989456482305

[–]hike_n_bike 19 points20 points  (2 children)

literally every single person in the world

I don't think that word means what you think it means

[–]pennomi [score hidden]  (0 children)

Give the man a break, literally everyone in the world gets that wrong.

[–]Baud_Olofsson 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But literally every single person in the world immediately told musk to go to hell.

I guess you haven't read many Reddit threads about this then. There are people defending musk's statement in every single thread here.

[–]Thiscord 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Things like this should happen after every major legal event. Well done.

[–]magnament 490 points491 points  (453 children)

Why did he call him that in the first place?

[–]s0x00 671 points672 points  (207 children)

I think it was bad what musk did here, (but not illegal).

According to musk, he was upset about the interview that Unsworth gave to CNN. Unsworth said that the mini-submarine was a "PR stunt" and that musk could "stick his submarine where it hurts". Also I think he said something like musk was thrown out of the cave area, which was false.

[–]iBeFloe 170 points171 points  (71 children)

Ohh, so I actually didn’t know the Diver said that lol

Still a wild thing to call someone in response tho.

[–]atrainpowerhouse 275 points276 points  (36 children)

I think the train of thought was he was a British ex-pat living in Thailand and there's a bit of a stereotype for that..

[–]asdgred [score hidden]  (2 children)

That stereotype exists because that's exactly what happens quite often in Thailand. It's pretty sad how exploited the people are in that regard.

[–]slickyslickslick [score hidden]  (1 child)

they don't call them sexpats for nothing.

[–]mcbergstedt 101 points102 points  (31 children)

Yeah and suing musk for $190 million is a bit of a reach too. It makes him look like he’s after the money more than his “defamed reputation”. He probably could’ve settled if it was $2-5m

[–]Slayy35 [score hidden]  (1 child)

People always sue for a stupid amount and then settle for way less, it's kind of a thing.

[–]Still_Same_Exile [score hidden]  (0 children)

ask for 190 million, get 10 million, ez life

[–]s0x00 46 points47 points  (24 children)

The whole Thailand thing was bad PR for musk. He should have just ignored it after the kids were rescued.

There are some indications that musk was really stressed in the summer of 2018. Some of his bad tweets and scandals (like smoking weed on a podcast) come from that time. In recent months his tweets have been rather uncontroversial.

[–]LegendofPisoMojado 60 points61 points  (19 children)

I still don’t understand why musk smoking weed on a podcast is problem. Or is it as simple as “we are people with a bunch of money and he represents our moneys’ best interests?”

I think the people who are opposed to weed are not investing in musk ventures anyway.

[–]gee_I_am_a_tree [score hidden]  (2 children)

I think the people who are opposed to weed are not investing in musk ventures anyway.

This is an extremely valid point I hadn't even though about until you pointed it out.

[–]ExtendedDeadline [score hidden]  (1 child)

It was not great because musk runs a successful spaceship company that receives a lot of money from the government and the government imposes strict clearance rules on their employees and contractors. One of which is you can't consume federally illegal drugs.

From a modern standpoint, there's nothing wrong with smoking dope... But musk doing it was kind of a jackass, or at minimum, careless, move that could have been not so great for his space company... Afaik.

[–]thehomeyskater [score hidden]  (4 children)

I think the people who are opposed to weed are not investing in musk ventures anyway.

musk's employees can be fired if it's found they're smoking weed so...

[–]strangerwords- [score hidden]  (3 children)

On the job. Tesla nor SpaceX drug tests unless they have probably cause someone is inebriated on the job or following an OSHA recordable incident. musk wasn't on the job.

[–]tbbHNC89 5 points6 points  (0 children)

There were a lot of rumors about him and Grimes having spats then.

[–]26_Charlie 41 points42 points  (3 children)

Unsworth didn't even bring up musk, the interviewer did. He basically told the interviewer he was sick of getting asked about musk because he didn't contribute anything useful but he was getting all the press.

Like, do most people even remember a diver died trying to save the kids?

[–]Nikkdrawsart [score hidden]  (1 child)

Like, do most people even remember a diver died trying to save the kids?

Nope, Reddit losers are just upset that their daddy Elon got in trouble.

[–]alltheacro 182 points183 points  (67 children)

The "mini sub" was a PR stunt.

musk came waltzing in with, essentially, a rectangular bounding box of a person - ie something that would contain the body's maximum width/depth/height.

In Reality World, the divers were squeezing into spaces so tight they had to take off tanks and other equipment, passing it through ahead or next to them. The notion that a giant rectangular box would fit through those same spaces was absurd.

Edit: apparently it is important that it was a giant tube, not a giant rectangle. It still would have been far bigger than spaces divers were having to squeeze themselves through. Also, some random person on twitter saying "please help @elonmusk" is not elon being officially asked by the team for help. Lastly, when some rich famous guy shows up, people in charge have to humor him because turning down help looks bad, even if the help would have been useless.

[–]atrainpowerhouse 111 points112 points  (18 children)

If I remember correctly, Elon tweeted screenshots of an email conversation where they asked him to make it and he initially declined before doing it. Whether it would have worked or not is one thing but I believe he was asked to provide something.

[–]marktrichards 83 points84 points  (14 children)

I’m confused- the thing I saw was a tube.

[–]s0x00 49 points50 points  (4 children)

You are right. It was a tube.

[–]fshowcars 22 points23 points  (6 children)

Because you actually saw it and these people are just taking out of their ass with no experience and literally complete conjecture (Reddit).

[–]s0x00 182 points183 points  (17 children)

Rick Stanton, the lead diver during the rescue testified that he instructed musk on the minisub. He said that it was considered as a possible plan B.

[–]Matasa89 88 points89 points  (12 children)

Yup, that's what I got as well. Initially the expectation was that the rain will get worse - which it usually did during that time of the year, but for some reason the rain stopped and the water level started dropping as a result of all the pumps working overtime. As a result, they didn't have to rely on the plan B mini-sub, which would definitely be needed as the cave would've been impossible for the kids to swim through even with help.

They got real lucky there, and musk also brought resources with him, including some generators for the pumps. He was on site in case the rain did get worse and they had to deploy the subs - that way he could be onsite for any troubleshooting or jury-rigging.

[–]coupdevent 28 points29 points  (7 children)

So the diver called "pedo guy" was the asshole after all

[–]Matasa89 43 points44 points  (3 children)

They're both assholes in this instance. Diver started it by being salty, and Elon was being childish and special by retorting like a dotard.

Like, dude, both of you just shut up and work.

[–]MackingtheKnife 31 points32 points  (1 child)

this absolutely misrepresents his design.

[–]Arcanorum 184 points185 points  (91 children)

musk claims it was a common playground insult where he grew up in South Africa. No clue if that is true, but he claims it was just a random childish insult without any specific intent behind it.

[–]NullBarell42 331 points332 points  (33 children)

So why did he hire a private investigator? I don’t usually hire a PI to prove people I don’t like are pedophiles

[–]plagueisthedumb 396 points397 points  (9 children)

It's common to add a PI to your playground insults in South Africa

[–]amber-fool 62 points63 points  (4 children)

Apartheid was also common in South Africa when musk grew up there.

[–]vodkaandponies 46 points47 points  (3 children)

Why do you think his daddy owned an emerald mine?

[–]poopellar 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Ah so he was used to making jokes abut miners getting fucked.

[–]theLostGuide 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Hardest I’ve laughed all day thanks man

[–]Arcanorum 115 points116 points  (16 children)

I would assume hiring a PI to investigate someone threatening to sue you is pretty common when you are rich. It's definitely a scumbag move, but if you can dig up some info that will make them back off without having to settle or go to trial, the rich will do it.

I haven't followed this case enough to know the details of the PI, so I'm just spit balling here.

[–]NullBarell42 96 points97 points  (10 children)

I’m pretty sure the PI guy was hired before Unsworth sued. Also I think musk himself admitted it was to back up the pedo comments

[–]ELKronos 35 points36 points  (6 children)

The PI was hired before he sued musk. However, according to court filings the PI firm approached an aide who works for musk asking if they would like them to investigate this individual. The aide hired them, and they shared statements from the individuals colleagues claiming he was "creepy" and allegedly entered a relationship with a 12 year old girl.

[–]paulmclaughlin 13 points14 points  (2 children)

The PI wasn't even a PI. He was a fraudster who conned Elon out of thousands of dollars.

[–]AvocadoInTheRain 20 points21 points  (1 child)

conned Elon out of thousands of dollars.

Which would be the same as conning a nickel out of you or I.

[–]Rektar233 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Nah he hired the PI to dig up dirt. Unsworth didn’t sue him until way later

[–]s0x00 8 points9 points  (0 children)

According to musk or his lawyers he was hired because they thought they will be getting sued.

[–]chillin_n_grillin 165 points166 points  (35 children)

Ha ha Ha... I love it. I grew up in South Africa. It was not a "common playground insult" We didn't go around calling people pedoguy. I think he absolutely was being specific due to that guy being an older British man living in an area know for child sex trafficking. I think he might have even mentioned that when he initially defended himself for calling him that.

[–]ano1batman 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Okay but did your family steal a emerald mine from a black family? We may be talking different playgrounds here.

[–]Arcanorum 48 points49 points  (10 children)

I'm not saying Elon was being truthful, I know nothing about South Africa, let alone the specific insults that he and his friends used on the playground. I will say that where I grew up, chomo (child molester) was a fairly common insult. So no clue if it is true, but it is not outside the realm of possibility. Kids/teenagers say fucked up shit and the specific shit they say varies a lot by region.

[–]fmmg1780 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Chomo meant gay boy where I grew up, chico+homo

[–]mainsworth 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hah. You know what they say in SA...

"If you're not going around calling people pedos on the playground... You might be the ped0"

[–]The_Ruly_Anarchist 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Elon musk is an adult. What's he doing in playgrounds?

[–]Rooogleheimer 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Hi South African checking in - I've lived in places all over SA, including Pretoria and am close friends with boys who went to the same schools as musk did. I can confidently say that Pedo Guy is not even close to a common phrase in South Africa, and can name 50 insults that would be thrown out before someone considered Pedo Guy. musk is full of shit.

[–]Jorgamoundr [score hidden]  (0 children)

When he made the initial tweet and someone asked for any proof or reason to think that he said "bet ya a signed dollar it's true", so it obviously wasn't a random insult with no specific intent behind it. He then also backed up that tweet by saying, "You don't think it's strange he hasn't sued me?" so again, he obviously knew there was meaning behind the word.

Not to mention the fact that he hired a PI to try and dig up dirt on him and then told Buzzfeed he was a childrapist without any evidence, and accused him of seducing his wife when she was 12 (without any evidence). For him to come out after all that and say "oh it's just a random, meaningless word, pedophilia was the furthest thing from my mind!" is a bit silly

[–]Deto 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Which is clearly bullshit because he later claimed in an interview that the guy "rapes children".

[–]Hemingwavy [score hidden]  (0 children)

Which is why he told Buzzfeed the guy had a child bride. That's the second part of the playground insult.

[–]lit0st 86 points87 points  (43 children)

musk built a submarine to rescue kids stuck in a cave, Diver guy who actually rescued them called him an asshole, musk called him a pedo because he was stereotyping white guys who live in Pattaya beach.

Diver guy's statement was needlessly rude, but musk was certainly the bigger asshole in the end.

Personally, I find it to be just an unfortunate situation. I don't think either of them are bad people, because they both did everything within their own respective means to rescue those kids, and that fact transcends this petty name-calling.

[–]falconberger 115 points116 points  (16 children)

Because musk is a narcissist who gets extremely triggered when he gets criticised or mocked and his natural response is disproportionate revenge.

[–]CaptainMemeO 55 points56 points  (2 children)

Remember when musk fanboys thought that he could get Trump to listen to him on tech issues?

Good times.

[–]GreyGreenBrownOakova 38 points39 points  (1 child)

62 million Trump voters thought Trump would act "more presidential" and listen to experts on military and foreign policy. Good times.

[–]AnyNamesLeftAnymore [score hidden]  (0 children)

Because he's a rich guy who was trying to secure woke brownie points by attaching his name to a rescue effort and a professional in the field said "thanks but that's kinda stupid" and he lost his fucking mind as rich people obsessed with image ALWAYS DO.

[–]JoelFolksy 185 points186 points  (15 children)

Vernon kind of forgot that the phrase is "I'll sue you in England!", not "I'll sue you in LA!"

[–]ArsenixShirogon 46 points47 points  (12 children)

I get that you're joking here but England would reject jurisdictionon this case if it was attempted to be tried there

[–]kallebo1337 16 points17 points  (11 children)

Shouldn’t that trial be in Thailand ? He would have won here 100%

[–]ArsenixShirogon 10 points11 points  (8 children)

Maybe it should've I dunno. But England would probably not be the jurisdiction to settle a dispute between a guy living in the US and a guy in Thailand

[–]Really_McNamington 717 points718 points  (93 children)

He's still an utter cunt for doing it.

[–]cubeicetray 64 points65 points  (25 children)

I hope he is meme'd in a similar fashion now.

[–]Spacesquid101 83 points84 points  (22 children)

Reddit and admitting their hero is a dick? Idk if that's possible

[–]shirogane_kuro 7 points8 points  (5 children)

they did it with Neil deGrasse Tyson, Give it some time.

[–]Thin-White-Duke97 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Hey, it’s Grimes’ boyfriend

[–]Kilgore_Trout_Mask 878 points879 points  (304 children)

Would everyone here defending musk also think it was fine for a billionaire to single you out as a pedophile online without any substantiation?

[–]thecoffee 637 points638 points  (50 children)

The case didn't determine that musk wasn't a shit for tweeting it. Just that he didn't owe the guy money.

[–]SendEldritchHorrors 76 points77 points  (3 children)

You're right, but there are plenty of people on Reddit unironically saying "Well the diver started it so musk was completely justified lol"

I imagine Kilgore's comment is aimed at them.

[–]overlordpotatoe 19 points20 points  (1 child)

It's the ongoing theme of reddit's struggle with proportionate response. The only people who can be victims are those who have done absolutely nothing that can be criticised. Otherwise you deserved it, no matter how small the thing you did or how terrible what was done to you in return was.

[–]Kilgore_Trout_Mask 173 points174 points  (42 children)

I get that, even though I obviously don't agree with it. However, I take issue with the defenders who think it was fine because the court said it was fine.

[–]somewhat_pragmatic 11 points12 points  (0 children)

However, I take issue with the defenders who think it was fine because the court said it was fine.

The court didn't say it was fine. The court said it wasn't against the law. Those are two entirely different measurements.

I'm a big fan of musk most of the time, and I don't think it was fine.

[–]tuttlebuttle 38 points39 points  (18 children)

If only there was a way to communicate with those redditors directly

[–]SendEldritchHorrors 218 points219 points  (43 children)

I like how many Redditors hate false accusations until it comes from the funny Tesla meme man

[–]TheHalfChubPrince 80 points81 points  (25 children)

Reddit fucking loves false allegations. Have you seen literally any thread about Cardi B?

[–]smoresNporn 29 points30 points  (4 children)

Reddit is honestly sexist af

[–]SendEldritchHorrors 23 points24 points  (0 children)

I think we're on the same page here. I meant to say that "Reddit loves to hate people who make false accusations until it comes to Elon musk."

Should've been more specific - sorry about that.

[–]Demon0fTh3Fall 50 points51 points  (2 children)

Elon Tusk wouldn't have made those comments.

[–]jo-alligator 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Yeah he would’ve. He’s the same guy just has tusks.

[–]FuckboyMessiah 205 points206 points  (38 children)

I'm not saying Elon musk is a pedophile, but if anyone did say Elon musk is a pedophile, they should be immune from any damages for it.

[–]Rinscher 75 points76 points  (19 children)

The whole point of the case failing is the inability to prove there were damages at all.

[–]JohnnyNoArms 65 points66 points  (7 children)

They also argued that the phrase “pedo guy” is widely known as slang for “creepy old guy.”

I've never heard of this before. I actually thought musk meant a literal pedophile.

The clash between the two men began when Unsworth criticized musk for involving himself, and his employees, in an effort to rescue 12 boys and their soccer coach from flooded caves in Thailand in July 2018.

That's probably an accurate description.

Before the rescue was completed, musk had directed employees to compel Thai officials to say nice things about him and his mini-sub, even as storms continued to bear down.

Yeah musk can be a douche.

He also referred to musk as “the billionaire bully,” and said that by labeling Unsworth a “pedo guy” on Twitter, where musk had tens of millions of followers, “He dropped a nuclear bomb on Vernon Unsworth,” and the fallout would last for decades.

That's pouring it on rather thick. I didn't even know Vernon's name until just now.

sought damages of $190 million in total for Unsworth. That included: $5 million in actual damages, $35 million in assumed damages and punitive damages of $150 million.

This is ridiculous.

[–]ic33 19 points20 points  (0 children)

That's pouring it on rather thick. I didn't even know Vernon's name until just now.

Even before litigation, if you googled Vernon Unsworth you find a lot of links saying that Elon musk said he was a pedophile and child rapist. That's kind of an unfortunate thing to deal with being associated with your full name, forever.

In the end, the jury decided Elon was not liable because he didn't refer to Unsworth by name and that casual people reading the tweets would not know who he was speaking of; however, he was specific enough for lots of press to remark on Elon saying that about Unsworth.

[–]PresidentDonaldChump 53 points54 points  (2 children)

Most people seem to be forgetting that it wasn't just a one line twitter insult musk levied at this guy.

He also sent an email to a news reporter trying to get them to write a story about how Vernon was a pedo.

From that email:

“I suggest that you call people you know in Thailand, find out what’s actually going on and stop defending child rapists, you fucking asshole,” musk wrote in the first message. “He’s an old, single white guy from England who’s been traveling to or living in Thailand for 30 to 40 years, mostly Pattaya Beach, until moving to Chiang Rai for a child bride who was about 12 years old at the time.”

“As for this alleged threat of a lawsuit, which magically appeared when I raised the issue (nothing was sent or raised beforehand), I fucking hope he sues me,” he added.

musk also hired a private investigator to try to dig up dirt on "Pedo guy" but apparently the PI was a scammer and just took his money and ran.

So it wasn't just some one off insult but it seems like musk really was trying to use his money and power to fuck this guy.

Sources: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45418245

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/elon-musk-thai-cave-rescuer-accusations-buzzfeed-email

[–]polipuncher 52 points53 points  (7 children)

It still showed zero class.

[–]cafeRacr 79 points80 points  (61 children)

All of this because Elon's rescue dildo was an idiotic idea.

[–]Drummk 119 points120 points  (43 children)

musk was wrong to say it but I find it hard to sympathise with Unsworth given the ridiculous damages he was seeking.

[–]Junessa 6 points7 points  (0 children)

musk is playing it off as it was just a random insult but it really didn't come across that way at the time, nor even now looking back

He was so confident in his claims and people I know were genuinely questioning whether this dude was a pedo or not, and how musk probably has inside information from informants or something