"I don't know that we can come back to Earth at that point"
April 6, 2025 10:34 AM Subscribe
Over on Ars Technica, long time space industry writer Eric Berger landed a 10 minute slot to interview astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams about what went wrong on the Boeing Crew Flight test to the International Space Space.
Those 10 minutes ended up being a half hour as the astronauts went into detail about how bad things actually became .
Those 10 minutes ended up being a half hour as the astronauts went into detail about how bad things actually became .
Eric Berger is a great specialist and writes well. There's a rephrasing by Ellie is Space at YouTube. if you want a video edition.
posted by k3ninho at 11:45 AM on April 6
posted by k3ninho at 11:45 AM on April 6
wow, those people are brave in a way I do not comprehend at all. very glad they made it back safely.
posted by supermedusa at 11:46 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 11:46 AM on April 6 [2 favorites]
I appreciate how Wilmore stresses the huge number of people working on this mission and all the prep work they do together to get two people into space.
posted by Jon_Evil at 11:51 AM on April 6 [7 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 11:51 AM on April 6 [7 favorites]
Context for title is that they're lining up for the ISS and lose thrusters plus have a time window to get on the radius from centre-of-earth and the obital velocity to meet the ISS, but loss of cooling helium around the thrusters meant they shut down for safety. They were supposed to abort but they waited, rebooted the systems and were able to scrape by to dock.
Wilmore: "I don't know that we can come back to Earth at that point. I don't know if we can. And matter of fact, I'm thinking we probably can't. So there we are, loss of 6DOF control, four aft thrusters down, and I'm visualizing orbital mechanics."
He didn't need to plan for shareholder values going down.
posted by k3ninho at 11:58 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]
Wilmore: "I don't know that we can come back to Earth at that point. I don't know if we can. And matter of fact, I'm thinking we probably can't. So there we are, loss of 6DOF control, four aft thrusters down, and I'm visualizing orbital mechanics."
He didn't need to plan for shareholder values going down.
posted by k3ninho at 11:58 AM on April 6 [1 favorite]
Wilmore: "I don't know that we can come back to Earth at that point. I don't know if we can. And matter of fact, I'm thinking we probably can't. So there we are, loss of 6DOF control, four aft thrusters down, and I'm visualizing orbital mechanics."
This has to be one of the most badass quotes I've ever read.
posted by allegedly at 12:10 PM on April 6 [5 favorites]
This has to be one of the most badass quotes I've ever read.
posted by allegedly at 12:10 PM on April 6 [5 favorites]
I fully expect their lives to be a living hell, since they didn't thank the toddler several times.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:39 PM on April 6 [4 favorites]
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 12:39 PM on April 6 [4 favorites]
I follow this stuff extremely closely, including listening to every single one of the press conferences by NASA leadership and engineers (not the astronauts). I'm indeed surprised at the seriousness of the problems they were having during the docking last June, as shown in this article / interview. I mean, Eric is prone to hyperbole, but Butch's quotes do speak volumes.
In the light of this new reporting, last week someone went back and re-listened to the press conferences* to see if NASA had been misleading us back then, and I thought his conclusion was interesting:
After reading the latest Berger Article (highly recommend) I went back and listened to the CFT Post Docking NASA Media Call.[from June 2024] I was curious to see how it lined up with the latest info, nearly a year later. I expected to do a big thread noting the changes but to my surprise (and relief) I have to say it holds up well. In fact it was like I was reading the Berger article again it matched so well. Now the tone is obviously pretty optimistic but I don’t think they should’ve been super alarmist in a briefing directly after docking. They don’t mention the loss of control for 6DOF, but they do list out all the thrusters that failed in detail and I guess if any of us had taken the time we would’ve been able to tell. Knowing what we know now though I actually do read more concern / relief into their statements than I did when I watched this live. (more in the link above)
Here's that June 2024 presser if anyone wants to go back. It's just talking heads, and they use a lot of jargon, so perhaps not as thrilling for the layman as it is for me, but it's the raw source material we rely on.
* link goes to a non-TwiX repeater that works better for most people for Reasons
posted by intermod at 12:43 PM on April 6 [9 favorites]
In the light of this new reporting, last week someone went back and re-listened to the press conferences* to see if NASA had been misleading us back then, and I thought his conclusion was interesting:
After reading the latest Berger Article (highly recommend) I went back and listened to the CFT Post Docking NASA Media Call.[from June 2024] I was curious to see how it lined up with the latest info, nearly a year later. I expected to do a big thread noting the changes but to my surprise (and relief) I have to say it holds up well. In fact it was like I was reading the Berger article again it matched so well. Now the tone is obviously pretty optimistic but I don’t think they should’ve been super alarmist in a briefing directly after docking. They don’t mention the loss of control for 6DOF, but they do list out all the thrusters that failed in detail and I guess if any of us had taken the time we would’ve been able to tell. Knowing what we know now though I actually do read more concern / relief into their statements than I did when I watched this live. (more in the link above)
Here's that June 2024 presser if anyone wants to go back. It's just talking heads, and they use a lot of jargon, so perhaps not as thrilling for the layman as it is for me, but it's the raw source material we rely on.
* link goes to a non-TwiX repeater that works better for most people for Reasons
posted by intermod at 12:43 PM on April 6 [9 favorites]
The guts to handle a terrible situation like this...
Space will just kill you. And they could have totally ruined the ISS and killed them all.
Watch Apollo 13 again to get how great Mission Control has always been.
Or The Martian just to realize, "I'm totally fucked. I'm going to have to Science the shit out of this".
What an awesome job these two did to not die.
posted by Windopaene at 1:20 PM on April 6 [6 favorites]
Space will just kill you. And they could have totally ruined the ISS and killed them all.
Watch Apollo 13 again to get how great Mission Control has always been.
Or The Martian just to realize, "I'm totally fucked. I'm going to have to Science the shit out of this".
What an awesome job these two did to not die.
posted by Windopaene at 1:20 PM on April 6 [6 favorites]
Oh man Boeing sucks so hard. But they are Too Big to Fail so they keep getting away with it.
posted by rikschell at 1:20 PM on April 6 [5 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 1:20 PM on April 6 [5 favorites]
They are carefully skating several thin lines at once here - most notably being open and honest about the depth of the flaws without screaming at the top of their lungs how angry they are at Boeing for sending them into space in what is clearly still a half baked prototype.
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:44 PM on April 6 [8 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 1:44 PM on April 6 [8 favorites]
That quote gave me chills. One detail that I noted was, basically the moment the docking 'clicked', he said "we are not going home in this" (paraphrased). And for days/weeks there were fake arguments about what they would do until Butch fixed the Boeing capsule enough to send it on it's way.
The other worthless reporting, over and over, is them being inconvenienced/stuck. Space is where these folks want to be. Stuck like what would be for many like being stuck at a 6 star resort for some reason. Ask any astronaut in the world if they would trade places and every arm would have go up instantly. "News accuracy" Sheesh.
posted by sammyo at 1:57 PM on April 6 [4 favorites]
The other worthless reporting, over and over, is them being inconvenienced/stuck. Space is where these folks want to be. Stuck like what would be for many like being stuck at a 6 star resort for some reason. Ask any astronaut in the world if they would trade places and every arm would have go up instantly. "News accuracy" Sheesh.
posted by sammyo at 1:57 PM on April 6 [4 favorites]
Wilmore: "I don't know that we can come back to Earth at that point. I don't know if we can. And matter of fact, I'm thinking we probably can't. So there we are, loss of 6DOF control, four aft thrusters down, and I'm visualizing orbital mechanics."
The Right Stuff.
posted by mikelieman at 2:17 PM on April 6 [3 favorites]
The Right Stuff.
posted by mikelieman at 2:17 PM on April 6 [3 favorites]
Berger writes (emphasis mine):
/After Starliner lost four of its 28 reaction control system thrusters, Van Cise and this team in Houston decided the best chance for success was resetting the failed thrusters. This is, effectively, a fancy way of turning off your computer and rebooting it to try to fix the problem.
JFC. Were they going to tell him to bang on the side of it next?
posted by zooropa at 2:52 PM on April 6 [2 favorites]
/After Starliner lost four of its 28 reaction control system thrusters, Van Cise and this team in Houston decided the best chance for success was resetting the failed thrusters. This is, effectively, a fancy way of turning off your computer and rebooting it to try to fix the problem.
JFC. Were they going to tell him to bang on the side of it next?
posted by zooropa at 2:52 PM on April 6 [2 favorites]
I fully expect their lives to be a living hell, since they didn't thank the toddler several times.
I also appreciate that early on in the article, Berger links to his debunking of that lie.
In short,
a) there was a return craft that was docked by last September (2024),
b) NASA and the astronauts made the decision last August to return in March of 2025 for safety reasons.
Trump had absolutely nothing to do with the date of their actual return.
posted by ishmael at 3:31 PM on April 6 [6 favorites]
I also appreciate that early on in the article, Berger links to his debunking of that lie.
In short,
a) there was a return craft that was docked by last September (2024),
b) NASA and the astronauts made the decision last August to return in March of 2025 for safety reasons.
Trump had absolutely nothing to do with the date of their actual return.
posted by ishmael at 3:31 PM on April 6 [6 favorites]
Compare and contrast what space.com wrote about presser event that Wilmore and Williams gave before the 1:1 interview Eric Berger had with them afterward.
Here's a few of quotes:
NASA astronauts Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore both say they'd ride on Boeing's Starliner again, despite the issues the capsule had on its first crewed flight.
"It is a great spacecraft, and it has a lot of capability that other spacecraft don't have," Williams added. "To see that thing successful and to be part of that program is an honor."
Wilmore said that he's optimistic about Starliner's future, given the spacecraft's capability and the commitment to the vehicle that both NASA and Boeing have shown.
"If we can figure out a couple of very important primary issues with the thrusters and the helium system, Starliner is ready to go,” Wilmore said. But, he acknowledged, "that is not going to happen overnight."
Perhaps Wilmore was being a bit more candid with Eric in the 1:1 interview, but Eric also failed to provide the perspectives Wilmore and Williams shared in the presser. This added an edge to Eric's piece that I'm not sure was entirely intended by either astronaut.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:35 PM on April 6
Here's a few of quotes:
NASA astronauts Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore both say they'd ride on Boeing's Starliner again, despite the issues the capsule had on its first crewed flight.
"It is a great spacecraft, and it has a lot of capability that other spacecraft don't have," Williams added. "To see that thing successful and to be part of that program is an honor."
Wilmore said that he's optimistic about Starliner's future, given the spacecraft's capability and the commitment to the vehicle that both NASA and Boeing have shown.
"If we can figure out a couple of very important primary issues with the thrusters and the helium system, Starliner is ready to go,” Wilmore said. But, he acknowledged, "that is not going to happen overnight."
Perhaps Wilmore was being a bit more candid with Eric in the 1:1 interview, but Eric also failed to provide the perspectives Wilmore and Williams shared in the presser. This added an edge to Eric's piece that I'm not sure was entirely intended by either astronaut.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 3:35 PM on April 6
Great account. It rekindles the space awe I had as a kid when Apollo 11 landed on the moon. And my respect for the rigour and dedication of the people who have earned a position on the mission team. I have a LEGO 50th Anniversary LEM model kit in the closet, calling to me now.
Will NASA still be able to clear this bar, post DOGE?
posted by Artful Codger at 4:08 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
Will NASA still be able to clear this bar, post DOGE?
posted by Artful Codger at 4:08 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
Completely off-topic -- Eric Berger, along with Matt Lanza, founded and run the awesome Space City Weather website which is an absolute must if you live in Houston or the Coastal Bend. Noted for its utterly indispensable coverage of 2017's Hurricane Harvey. They also founded and run The Eyewall, which is an equally awesome weather website, mostly covering hurricanes and the science behind them, and also other weather phenomena.
posted by smcdow at 4:25 PM on April 6
posted by smcdow at 4:25 PM on April 6
Wow, these two (and all astronauts, to be honest) are so capable and calm. Yes, they're extremely well-trained, but all the training in the world won't help if you're not the sort of person that can calmly evaluate that you're in space and may not have a way to get back.
posted by dg at 5:05 PM on April 6
posted by dg at 5:05 PM on April 6
Wilmore: "Thankfully, these folks are heroes. And please print this. What do heroes look like? Well, heroes put their tank on and they run into a fiery building and pull people out of it. That's a hero. Heroes also sit in their cubicle for decades studying their systems, and knowing their systems front and back. And when there is no time to assess a situation and go and talk to people and ask, 'What do you think?' they know their system so well they come up with a plan on the fly. That is a hero. And there are several of them in Mission Control."
posted by ourobouros at 5:22 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
posted by ourobouros at 5:22 PM on April 6 [1 favorite]
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