Is WhatsApp Being Ditched for Signal in Dutch Higher Education? (dub.uu.nl) 13
For weeks Signal has been one of the three most-downloaded apps in the Netherlands, according to a local news site. And now "Higher education institutions in the Netherlands have been looking for an alternative," according to DUB (an independent news site for the Utrecht University community):
Employees of the Utrecht University of Applied Sciences (HU) were recently advised to switch to Signal. Avans University of Applied Sciences has also been discussing a switch...The National Student Union is concerned about privacy. The subject was raised at last week's general meeting, as reported by chair Abdelkader Karbache, who said: "Our local unions want to switch to Signal or other open-source software."
Besides being open source, Signal is a non-commercial nonprofit, the article points out — though its proponents suggest there's another big difference. "HU argues that Signal keeps users' data private, unlike WhatsApp." Cybernews.com explains the concern: In an interview with the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, Meredith Whittaker [president of the Signal Foundation] discussed the pitfalls of WhatsApp. "WhatsApp collects metadata: who you send messages to, when, and how often. That's incredibly sensitive information," she says.... The only information [Signal] collects is the date an account was registered, the time when an account was last active, and hashed phone numbers... Information like profile name and the people a user communicates with is all encrypted... Metadata might sound harmless, but it couldn't be further from the truth. According to Whittaker, metadata is deadly. "As a former CIA director once said: 'We kill people based on metadata'."
WhatsApp's metadata also includes IP addresses, TechRadar noted last May: Other identifiable data such as your network details, the browser you use, ISP, and other identifiers linked to other Meta products (like Instagram and Facebook) associated with the same device or account are also collected... [Y]our IP can be used to track down your location. As the company explained, even if you keep the location-related features off, IP addresses and other collected information like phone number area codes can be used to estimate your "general location."
WhatsApp is required by law to share this information with authorities during an investigation...
[U]nder scrutiny is how Meta itself uses these precious details for commercial purposes. Again, this is clearly stated in WhatsApp's privacy policy and terms of use. "We may use the information we receive from [other Meta companies], and they may use the information we share with them, to help operate, provide, improve, understand, customize, support, and market our Services and their offerings," reads the policy. This means that yes, your messages are always private, but WhatsApp is actively collecting your metadata to build your digital persona across other Meta platforms...
The article suggests using a VPN with WhatsApp and turning on its "advanced privacy feature" (which hides your IP address during calls) and managing the app's permissions for data collection. "While these steps can help reduce the amount of metadata collected, it's crucial to bear in mind that it's impossible to completely avoid metadata collection on the Meta-owned app... For extra privacy and security, I suggest switching to the more secure messaging app Signal."
The article also includes a cautionary anecdote. "It was exactly a piece of metadata — a Proton Mail recovery email — that led to the arrest of a Catalan activist."
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader united_notions for sharing the article.
Besides being open source, Signal is a non-commercial nonprofit, the article points out — though its proponents suggest there's another big difference. "HU argues that Signal keeps users' data private, unlike WhatsApp." Cybernews.com explains the concern: In an interview with the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, Meredith Whittaker [president of the Signal Foundation] discussed the pitfalls of WhatsApp. "WhatsApp collects metadata: who you send messages to, when, and how often. That's incredibly sensitive information," she says.... The only information [Signal] collects is the date an account was registered, the time when an account was last active, and hashed phone numbers... Information like profile name and the people a user communicates with is all encrypted... Metadata might sound harmless, but it couldn't be further from the truth. According to Whittaker, metadata is deadly. "As a former CIA director once said: 'We kill people based on metadata'."
WhatsApp's metadata also includes IP addresses, TechRadar noted last May: Other identifiable data such as your network details, the browser you use, ISP, and other identifiers linked to other Meta products (like Instagram and Facebook) associated with the same device or account are also collected... [Y]our IP can be used to track down your location. As the company explained, even if you keep the location-related features off, IP addresses and other collected information like phone number area codes can be used to estimate your "general location."
WhatsApp is required by law to share this information with authorities during an investigation...
[U]nder scrutiny is how Meta itself uses these precious details for commercial purposes. Again, this is clearly stated in WhatsApp's privacy policy and terms of use. "We may use the information we receive from [other Meta companies], and they may use the information we share with them, to help operate, provide, improve, understand, customize, support, and market our Services and their offerings," reads the policy. This means that yes, your messages are always private, but WhatsApp is actively collecting your metadata to build your digital persona across other Meta platforms...
The article suggests using a VPN with WhatsApp and turning on its "advanced privacy feature" (which hides your IP address during calls) and managing the app's permissions for data collection. "While these steps can help reduce the amount of metadata collected, it's crucial to bear in mind that it's impossible to completely avoid metadata collection on the Meta-owned app... For extra privacy and security, I suggest switching to the more secure messaging app Signal."
The article also includes a cautionary anecdote. "It was exactly a piece of metadata — a Proton Mail recovery email — that led to the arrest of a Catalan activist."
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader united_notions for sharing the article.
Meta cannot be trusted (Score:2)
Use anything from Meta and expect your privacy to be compromised, either directly or indirectly. That's why I have Meta's IP addresses blocked by my firewall.
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Why does anything have to go through a third party? Use gpg for real end to end email encryption and setup your own chat server with proper encryption if needed if you are really concerned about privacy.
Re: (Score:2)
And chat with yourself? Communication relies on a network effect. For many people receiving a GPG encrypted email just means they will throw your relationship into the too-hard basket.
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Use anything from Meta and expect your privacy to be compromised, either directly or indirectly. That's why I have Meta's IP addresses blocked by my firewall.
Where did you come from? Personally I came from SMS messages sent analogue over open airways, and unencrypted email bouncing around who knows what servers in the world. After that we moved to digital SMS and MMS right around the time it was in vogue for the government to intercept these messages and for telephone companies to datamine them. Fast forward to 2025 and nothing's changed other than the people who have access.
Rather than asking if someone can be trusted, a better question would be: what would you
Re: (Score:2)
If someone is ONLY on Meta servers, then that's no one I feel any need to talk to. I've lost some friends when I quit Facebook, but most of those know how to get a hold of me if they really want.
What is your threat model? (Score:2)
If the threat model includes American intelligence agencies going through all that trouble just to switch an American alternative with American servers still vulnerable to traffic analysis is a bit silly.
Still comes from the US (Score:2)
It is unfortunate that researchers have debunked the marketing materi
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
There's no official order anywhere this is just an advisory.
As for using WhatsApp, *EVERYONE* uses WhatsApp for *EVERYTHING* in the Netherlands. I guarantee your university has more than one way to communicate with you in Germany.
People of course exchange private numbers, but most seem to prefer Signal, Threema and other more secure messengers in STEM.
What people do in a specific field is irrelevant. Everyone still has WhatsApp in the country. It's the de facto default for communication.
Re: (Score:1)
Germany gave us Hitler and the Stasi....so....uh....I'm cautious.
Anyone on earth (Score:1)
Anyone on earth is welcome to know who I chat with, I couldn't care less if the info is made public.
That said....too bad a Dutch company can't be bothered to create a chat app. I'm sure that would solve all the problems.