The most significant hip hop feud in decades
May 5, 2024 7:07 AM Subscribe
Kendrick Lamar and Drake (aka Aubrey Graham), two of the biggest active hip hop artists and former collaborators, are seriously beefing in a major way that hasn't been seen since Tupac vs Biggie. Last October, Drake dropped a track, First Person Shooter, where his collaborator J Cole named the two of them and Kendrick as "the big three". Kendrick, who has a competitive streak, took umbrage at being put on the same level as the other two and replied in Like That "it's just big me". What might've started as a somewhat professional competition has rapidly gone nuclear since Kendrick took shots at Drake's Blackness, fitness as a parent, and masculinity in his track titled "euphoria" and Drake responded with allegations of domestic abuse, infidelity, and cuckoldry in Family Matters. As of the latest, Kendrick has accused Drake of hiding a 2nd child and being a sexual predator of underaged girls.
For those of you with teenage or young adult children, I can almost guarantee they are paying attention to this. Be warned the songs linked do contain liberal use of the n-word, casual misogyny, glorification of violence, etc (aka all the stuff rap critics talk about). Some additional background/details:
For those of you with teenage or young adult children, I can almost guarantee they are paying attention to this. Be warned the songs linked do contain liberal use of the n-word, casual misogyny, glorification of violence, etc (aka all the stuff rap critics talk about). Some additional background/details:
- Drake was shamed into recognizing a son he had with an adult entertainer in a diss by Pusha T in 2018
- Drake's initial response to Like That was Push Ups, which had what could be interpreted as a reference to Kendrick's long time fiancé. He rapidly followed up without waiting for a response with Taylor Made Freestyle, which was almost jocular in tone and pulled after Tupac's estate threatened to sue over unauthorized use of AI-generated vocals in his style.
- After releasing euphoria, Kendrick took a page from Drake's book and shot off a 2nd diss track, 6:16 in LA.
- Drake replied with Family Matters within a day, to which Kendrick fired back within minutes with meet the grahams where he implies an unrecognized daughter of Drake's. It's likely both circles are leaking like sieves and had responses prepared.
- The latest from Kendrick, Not Like Us, is deeply personal in its rancor and makes life ruining accusations. The cover image is of Drake's house on Citizen App, filled with labels of child predators. People have been shot for less.
Boys, BOYS!
Cut it out!
You’re BOTH just god-awful..
posted by chronkite at 7:12 AM on May 5 [12 favorites]
Cut it out!
You’re BOTH just god-awful..
posted by chronkite at 7:12 AM on May 5 [12 favorites]
Ask your doctor or pharmacist if testosterone is right for you.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:22 AM on May 5 [18 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:22 AM on May 5 [18 favorites]
I appreciate this post and explanation as context for jests I was noticing on social media - thanks!
Same!
posted by Dip Flash at 7:27 AM on May 5 [1 favorite]
Same!
posted by Dip Flash at 7:27 AM on May 5 [1 favorite]
There’s a clarification on Genius that Kendrick has at least three more tracks to release on short order. They’re very dense with allusions, so wow that’s a lot of work prepped - I’d love to know if they were ready for a while or can Kendrick just go full throttle in a few days?!
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:29 AM on May 5 [3 favorites]
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:29 AM on May 5 [3 favorites]
As of the latest, Kendrick has accused Drake of hiding a 2nd child and being a sexual predator of underaged girls
Drake is leaning into only denying the 2nd child to keep the focus on it, rather than oh, how he was hitting on Millie Bobby Brown at 14.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:32 AM on May 5 [17 favorites]
Drake is leaning into only denying the 2nd child to keep the focus on it, rather than oh, how he was hitting on Millie Bobby Brown at 14.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 7:32 AM on May 5 [17 favorites]
I don't know how I got sucked into this but meet the grahams is SCATHING. Someone on TikTok said that if you're getting into a rap beef with someone, don't choose a man who literally won a Pulitzer prize for rapping.
posted by kimberussell at 7:34 AM on May 5 [28 favorites]
posted by kimberussell at 7:34 AM on May 5 [28 favorites]
I listened to Lamar's tracks expecting them to be highly referential, opaque and hard to follow but no he just lays it all out there. I'm sure there were still plenty of references I didn't catch but he went out of his way to make it very clear to the average listener what he's alleging - that Drake and his record label employees repeatedly prey on underaged girls. his diction is also so precise that I could understand what he was saying without subtitles (unusual for me for lyrics).
the allegations are serious. from the little I've looked into it, it sounds like there is public information - drake repeatedly developing relationships with young teenage girls - that suggests the allegations could be true. they're so pointed that I'd be surprised if Lamar doesn't have better evidence that it's actually happening. seems like the kind of thing you'd want to be sure of before claiming it so publicly.
if so, has this been a broken stair situation for awhile where lots of people "know" what he does but choose to work around it because he is too powerful a figure in their circle? and will this be the tipping point where enough attention is finally on the issue that something is done about it? I hope that this doesn't get lost in the framing of "two guys having a rap battle".
or if it's not true, does Drake have a case for defamation?
posted by mosessis at 7:48 AM on May 5 [7 favorites]
the allegations are serious. from the little I've looked into it, it sounds like there is public information - drake repeatedly developing relationships with young teenage girls - that suggests the allegations could be true. they're so pointed that I'd be surprised if Lamar doesn't have better evidence that it's actually happening. seems like the kind of thing you'd want to be sure of before claiming it so publicly.
if so, has this been a broken stair situation for awhile where lots of people "know" what he does but choose to work around it because he is too powerful a figure in their circle? and will this be the tipping point where enough attention is finally on the issue that something is done about it? I hope that this doesn't get lost in the framing of "two guys having a rap battle".
or if it's not true, does Drake have a case for defamation?
posted by mosessis at 7:48 AM on May 5 [7 favorites]
The Guardian's been writing about this all week:
Rich guys arguing
Diss tracks ranked
Kendrick Lamar Drake
Most brutal moments
posted by Paul Slade at 7:53 AM on May 5
Rich guys arguing
Diss tracks ranked
Kendrick Lamar Drake
Most brutal moments
posted by Paul Slade at 7:53 AM on May 5
Even though it was dropped, his OVO associate Baka's sex trafficking charge is a matter of public record
posted by Selena777 at 7:54 AM on May 5
posted by Selena777 at 7:54 AM on May 5
Oh yeah, I don't really listen to rap, I'm 52 and far from the celeb scene and even I knew about Drake being a long time creep.
posted by rikschell at 7:54 AM on May 5 [11 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 7:54 AM on May 5 [11 favorites]
You’re BOTH just god-awful..
I could do without Drake, but Lamar is quite good.
Unless you meant in terms of being mature adults in which case I strongly agree.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 8:04 AM on May 5 [2 favorites]
I could do without Drake, but Lamar is quite good.
Unless you meant in terms of being mature adults in which case I strongly agree.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 8:04 AM on May 5 [2 favorites]
A little background from Defector (gift link): Everybody Hates Drake: A Guide To Millennial Rap’s Midlife Beef Crisis
"This version of rap Wrestlemania is just a bunch of guys pushing 40, hoping to maintain relevance, and it feels like everyone involved can feel their mortality within the confines of their success and are trying to revitalize themselves."
posted by kimberussell at 8:10 AM on May 5 [14 favorites]
"This version of rap Wrestlemania is just a bunch of guys pushing 40, hoping to maintain relevance, and it feels like everyone involved can feel their mortality within the confines of their success and are trying to revitalize themselves."
posted by kimberussell at 8:10 AM on May 5 [14 favorites]
"Let's pretend to fight with each other so as to attract attention and sell records! We'll laugh all the way to the bank!"
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:11 AM on May 5 [4 favorites]
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 8:11 AM on May 5 [4 favorites]
I AM LOVING THIS.
Kendrick's a GOAT and Drizzy can't compete.
In terms of people chiming in with their "boo hoo who cares" crap, I love Spike Trotman's (Iron Circus owner and artist) Blue Sky posts about people telling her this is dumb to care about or be interested in:
"lol getting a lot of good blocks out of the Drake/Kendrick skeets.
How Dare You Care About That, I Didn't Give You Permission skeets are the Fast Pass to the shadow realm, so by all means, line up, you joyless fucks.
"Don't you know there's a BAD THING going on?!" I obviously do, condescending weirdo. And there literally always has been.
If your requirement for enjoying frivolous, fun things is Nothing Has To be Going Wrong Anywhere Else Ever, you're in for a sad-bastard life.
But we both know it's not, so."
posted by Kitteh at 8:13 AM on May 5 [22 favorites]
Kendrick's a GOAT and Drizzy can't compete.
In terms of people chiming in with their "boo hoo who cares" crap, I love Spike Trotman's (Iron Circus owner and artist) Blue Sky posts about people telling her this is dumb to care about or be interested in:
"lol getting a lot of good blocks out of the Drake/Kendrick skeets.
How Dare You Care About That, I Didn't Give You Permission skeets are the Fast Pass to the shadow realm, so by all means, line up, you joyless fucks.
"Don't you know there's a BAD THING going on?!" I obviously do, condescending weirdo. And there literally always has been.
If your requirement for enjoying frivolous, fun things is Nothing Has To be Going Wrong Anywhere Else Ever, you're in for a sad-bastard life.
But we both know it's not, so."
posted by Kitteh at 8:13 AM on May 5 [22 favorites]
I love the way Lamar draws out that r on "tryna strike a chord and its probably a minorrrrrrrrr" -- brutal. That is all I have to say on this matter.
posted by the primroses were over at 8:13 AM on May 5 [25 favorites]
posted by the primroses were over at 8:13 AM on May 5 [25 favorites]
Also that Defector article has a point about Drake and the Quest for Authencity in Hip Hop. Being a biracial kid can be weird when one of your parents is white (I speak from my own history). Drake was raised in the Toronto suburbs by his white Jewish mom and was a child actor. None of which is really street cred in the game so Kendrick isn't wrong to call him out for pretending his life was tougher than it actually was.
posted by Kitteh at 8:19 AM on May 5 [7 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:19 AM on May 5 [7 favorites]
As far as I'm concerned, Drake was, is, and always will be a poser. He tends to jump on whatever is the current flavor in rap/hip-hop and repackages it in a way that's palatable for Top 40 radio. I think he, via J Cole, tried to gain some street cred by putting himself on Kendrick's level artistically. Guess he wasn't counting on Kendrick basically saying, "Not today, son," and going nuclear on Drake's whole manufactured image.
posted by fuse theorem at 8:19 AM on May 5 [5 favorites]
posted by fuse theorem at 8:19 AM on May 5 [5 favorites]
"Let's pretend to fight with each other so as to attract attention and sell records! We'll laugh all the way to the bank!"
I'm really following this beef closely. Three people in my life, who I've tried to communicate to about why this beef is so entertaining, have had that as their first take. And, I get it, but it's wrong. What's thrilling about this is that, sure, there's some kayfabe involved in entertainers entertaining, but Kendrick is not pulling punches. This whole thing has the feel of a fight that might have been fake but then got undeniably real.
There's something really uncomfortable, just to name one thing, about the song Meet the Grahams. Drake directly addresses different members of Drake's family, repeatedly says he wished drake was dead, and discusses raising girls in a world where sexual predators exist. "Maam, your son's a sick man with sick thoughts. I think ---- like him should die. Him and weinstein should get fucked up in a cell for the rest they life." It's heavy.
There's also the interesting element of moles in these different rappers camps. The art for two of Kendrick's recent diss tracks appears to be pictures of drake's possessions (and prescription sleeping pills and ozempic) widely speculated to be taken without drake's knowledge.
posted by Rinku at 8:24 AM on May 5 [30 favorites]
I'm really following this beef closely. Three people in my life, who I've tried to communicate to about why this beef is so entertaining, have had that as their first take. And, I get it, but it's wrong. What's thrilling about this is that, sure, there's some kayfabe involved in entertainers entertaining, but Kendrick is not pulling punches. This whole thing has the feel of a fight that might have been fake but then got undeniably real.
There's something really uncomfortable, just to name one thing, about the song Meet the Grahams. Drake directly addresses different members of Drake's family, repeatedly says he wished drake was dead, and discusses raising girls in a world where sexual predators exist. "Maam, your son's a sick man with sick thoughts. I think ---- like him should die. Him and weinstein should get fucked up in a cell for the rest they life." It's heavy.
There's also the interesting element of moles in these different rappers camps. The art for two of Kendrick's recent diss tracks appears to be pictures of drake's possessions (and prescription sleeping pills and ozempic) widely speculated to be taken without drake's knowledge.
posted by Rinku at 8:24 AM on May 5 [30 favorites]
Mefi favorite Demi Adejuyigbe helps Drake prepare his next response track. [parody]
posted by mbrubeck at 8:25 AM on May 5 [5 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 8:25 AM on May 5 [5 favorites]
Rinku is not wrong. This isn't about making money; this is about Kendrick straight up fucking annihilating Drake's image. He's not faking about hating Drake.
posted by Kitteh at 8:26 AM on May 5 [20 favorites]
posted by Kitteh at 8:26 AM on May 5 [20 favorites]
Another thing that makes this entertaining and rich is that while hating on Drake has never been more entertaining, everybody following this drama knows they owe him a bit of gratitude. Getting new music from Kendrick Lamar is a cool thing, and some of the lines in his songs about this are already legendary. Even if Drake's not the guy who wrote the line "fuck a rap battle, this a lifelong battle with yourself," we owe him something for being part of how that line came into the world. I'm certainly happy I'm not the guy who made Kendrick mad, you know?
posted by Rinku at 8:33 AM on May 5 [6 favorites]
posted by Rinku at 8:33 AM on May 5 [6 favorites]
I'm honestly starting to think none of these guys care about cultivating the buddha nature.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 8:37 AM on May 5 [37 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 8:37 AM on May 5 [37 favorites]
The Switched on Pop podcast has a pretty good explainer, as well.
posted by signal at 8:44 AM on May 5
posted by signal at 8:44 AM on May 5
some of the lines in his songs about this are already legendary.
Seriously. "you not a colleague, you a fuckin' colonizer".
I think one thing that I find genuinely interesting about this is kind of how the rap/hip-hop scene has changed, as well - like, these accusations would not have been effective twenty years ago. But the world has changed, and now people get to come and be hard and still be like "hey, you're a menace to young girls" and that's actually...really fucking positive?
posted by corb at 8:55 AM on May 5 [29 favorites]
Seriously. "you not a colleague, you a fuckin' colonizer".
I think one thing that I find genuinely interesting about this is kind of how the rap/hip-hop scene has changed, as well - like, these accusations would not have been effective twenty years ago. But the world has changed, and now people get to come and be hard and still be like "hey, you're a menace to young girls" and that's actually...really fucking positive?
posted by corb at 8:55 AM on May 5 [29 favorites]
Whenever these feuds persist I always presume that the factions realize that their fandoms don't really intersect so the publicity is good for everyone. I don't doubt that this feud is real but the fake feud is a timeless PR stunt. I'm also not too young to remember the hatred and derision that Nickelback generated all while selling millions of albums and filling stadiums.
posted by Depressed Obese Nightmare Man at 9:04 AM on May 5 [2 favorites]
posted by Depressed Obese Nightmare Man at 9:04 AM on May 5 [2 favorites]
I hate this genre of rap but Kendrick isn't wrong and I've never understood why a sexual predator and pedophile gets a pass. Disgusting.
posted by photoslob at 9:18 AM on May 5
posted by photoslob at 9:18 AM on May 5
To think we have J Cole to thank for this.
(But I've seriously checked out of Drake when the thing with Millie Bobbie Brown became known - but yeah, a real broken stairs situation there.)
posted by cendawanita at 9:38 AM on May 5 [2 favorites]
(But I've seriously checked out of Drake when the thing with Millie Bobbie Brown became known - but yeah, a real broken stairs situation there.)
posted by cendawanita at 9:38 AM on May 5 [2 favorites]
Shepherd: "I've always thought of Drake as Your Mom's Favourite Rapper." He also called Drake a soft cozy backpack rapper.
posted by Kitteh at 9:45 AM on May 5 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitteh at 9:45 AM on May 5 [1 favorite]
People who say this is all kayfabe or publicity stunt or whatever might not see it, but, to people who care about hip-hop (and, whatever else Kendrick is, he is absolutely that), it's a lot bigger than that.
Ebro Darden: If you think this battle is just Kendrick & Drake’s ego, gossip and mudslinging you are not seeing the full picture. The reverberations on how the next generation views and values what is important in being an MC is at stake here.
Drake and Kendrick Lamar is the last great rap beef. Thank God. (The Ringer)
posted by box at 9:45 AM on May 5 [6 favorites]
Ebro Darden: If you think this battle is just Kendrick & Drake’s ego, gossip and mudslinging you are not seeing the full picture. The reverberations on how the next generation views and values what is important in being an MC is at stake here.
Drake and Kendrick Lamar is the last great rap beef. Thank God. (The Ringer)
posted by box at 9:45 AM on May 5 [6 favorites]
"Kendrick Lamar methodically dismantling Drake's entire identity and psyche using raps of James Joyce level semantic complexity might give us all the fresh start we need"
Brooks Otterlake on t*itter
posted by thatwhichfalls at 9:47 AM on May 5 [5 favorites]
Brooks Otterlake on t*itter
posted by thatwhichfalls at 9:47 AM on May 5 [5 favorites]
F.D Signifier has a good video about Drake in the context of evolving hip hop culture. One thing he talks about is that Kendrick blew up around the time Drake was at the peak of his career, and maybe stole some of his thunder. It also sounds like, unlike Kendrick, Drake has struggled to be recognized as "real" hip hop as opposed to pop. Between the two of them, Drake comes off to me as someone who feels he has something to prove, despite all his success.
posted by jomato at 9:57 AM on May 5 [2 favorites]
posted by jomato at 9:57 AM on May 5 [2 favorites]
I have not generally listened to much mainstream rap/hip hop, although I have of course heard of these two men.
I am listening to the songs in the FPP now. Euphoria is very good. KL is definitely creating on a different level than the child predator.
posted by supermedusa at 10:00 AM on May 5
I am listening to the songs in the FPP now. Euphoria is very good. KL is definitely creating on a different level than the child predator.
posted by supermedusa at 10:00 AM on May 5
Asked my Gen Alpha kids (9 and 11) what they thought about Drake and Kendrick Lamar.
They hadn’t heard of either, though Lil Mosey is apparently on fire right now (for an old school guy at 22) and they started rapping lyrics at me.
What I am most proud of is the interaction with my 11 year old who said - and I kid you not - “Lamar who? Do you mean Lamar Jackson from the Ravens? or Lamar Valley at Yellowstone?”
Because no rap beef well ever be as ice cold as a 10,000 year old glacially carved valley apparently. The kids are alright.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:05 AM on May 5 [9 favorites]
They hadn’t heard of either, though Lil Mosey is apparently on fire right now (for an old school guy at 22) and they started rapping lyrics at me.
What I am most proud of is the interaction with my 11 year old who said - and I kid you not - “Lamar who? Do you mean Lamar Jackson from the Ravens? or Lamar Valley at Yellowstone?”
Because no rap beef well ever be as ice cold as a 10,000 year old glacially carved valley apparently. The kids are alright.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:05 AM on May 5 [9 favorites]
My two favorite tweets so far are the one from Shit Academics say that's "I wish I loved my research as much as Kendrick hates Drake" and the one I saw reposted by Michael Harriott that says that "If the new allegations are proven true, Kendrick should get another Pulitzer for investigative journalism."
Also, Kendrick's second diss had, like, a quintuple-meaning word play. Respect.
posted by TwoStride at 10:26 AM on May 5 [10 favorites]
Also, Kendrick's second diss had, like, a quintuple-meaning word play. Respect.
posted by TwoStride at 10:26 AM on May 5 [10 favorites]
Rinku is not wrong. This isn't about making money; this is about Kendrick straight up fucking annihilating Drake's image.
And the whole thing has legs way, way outside of the usual hiphop audience.
I don't really know anything about hiphop but in the last week I've somehow become ambiently aware of how quietly relieved I am that Kendrick Lamar doesn't know or care that I exist.
posted by mhoye at 10:28 AM on May 5 [7 favorites]
And the whole thing has legs way, way outside of the usual hiphop audience.
I don't really know anything about hiphop but in the last week I've somehow become ambiently aware of how quietly relieved I am that Kendrick Lamar doesn't know or care that I exist.
posted by mhoye at 10:28 AM on May 5 [7 favorites]
Drake's initial diss tracks are well explained here and here.
The Taylor Made freestyle ends with Drake mocking Kendrick's rep for lyrical complexity, claiming Kendrick would need to come up with a quintiple entendre to respond to how bad Drake got him. The quintuple (or more?) entendre is the title of 6:16 in LA, a reference to various relevant dates and bible verses.
posted by Hume at 10:35 AM on May 5 [2 favorites]
The Taylor Made freestyle ends with Drake mocking Kendrick's rep for lyrical complexity, claiming Kendrick would need to come up with a quintiple entendre to respond to how bad Drake got him. The quintuple (or more?) entendre is the title of 6:16 in LA, a reference to various relevant dates and bible verses.
posted by Hume at 10:35 AM on May 5 [2 favorites]
My favorite analysis of this:
"Not since Martin Luther has the world produced such a hater and we can only hope the result will be better this time"
posted by corb at 11:10 AM on May 5 [18 favorites]
"Not since Martin Luther has the world produced such a hater and we can only hope the result will be better this time"
posted by corb at 11:10 AM on May 5 [18 favorites]
Kendrick has at least three more tracks to release on short order. They’re very dense with allusions, so wow that’s a lot of work prepped
Maybe the dude just always hated Drake and has been stewing on it for a while, but I like to think of Kendrick as Batman ready to neutralize the Justice League. Just sitting on a primed vault of absolutely ruthless takedowns of everyone in the industry, just in case he decides they need it.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 11:36 AM on May 5 [10 favorites]
Maybe the dude just always hated Drake and has been stewing on it for a while, but I like to think of Kendrick as Batman ready to neutralize the Justice League. Just sitting on a primed vault of absolutely ruthless takedowns of everyone in the industry, just in case he decides they need it.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 11:36 AM on May 5 [10 favorites]
Thank you for making this post. I was pondering doing it myself but didn't know if I was up to the task.
I'm glad we're getting some new Kendrick raps out of this but I'm wary of treating it too much as entertainment. The always-thoughtful Mekka Okereke has some sobering comments on Mastodon:
Mekka also approvingly quotes a lyric from J Cole (who has largely stayed out of all this) that pre-dates the ongoing fracas:
On the surface this is all very engaging. Kendrick has certainly taken the gloves off in a way I don't think we've ever seen and it's kind of thrilling to see. But there is definitely an uneasy undercurrent to it for me.
posted by valrus at 12:20 PM on May 5 [8 favorites]
I'm glad we're getting some new Kendrick raps out of this but I'm wary of treating it too much as entertainment. The always-thoughtful Mekka Okereke has some sobering comments on Mastodon:
You can't love dogs, and love dog fighting at the same time. Because dog fighting is being entertained by watching two dogs attack each other until one is dead or nearly dead.It's hard for me to see actual violence coming out of this (notwithstanding state violence if various allegations are true and followed up on) just based on like who Kendrick and Drake are as people, but I think Mekka is more likely to be right than I am.
Don't go to a dog fight, and then afterwards say, "Oh no! It's a tragedy! I didn't know that one of the dogs could die!"
Yes you did.
Mekka also approvingly quotes a lyric from J Cole (who has largely stayed out of all this) that pre-dates the ongoing fracas:
They act like two legends cannot coexistBut listening to Kendrick's tracks... I don't know. It doesn't feel like his angle is about clout or fame or sales, if we take his words at face value even a little bit. It feels pretty real and also makes me nervous about treating this whole thing as entertainment. The Ringer post that box linked also makes a really good point about the women involved being used as props, as well as questioning whether either of these men really have the moral authority to be credible here.
But I'd never beef with a brother for nothin'
If I smoke a rapper, it's gon' be legit
It won't be for clout, it won't be for fame
It won't be 'cause my shit ain't sellin' the same
It won't be to sell you my latest lil' sneakers
It won't be 'cause some brother slid in my lane
On the surface this is all very engaging. Kendrick has certainly taken the gloves off in a way I don't think we've ever seen and it's kind of thrilling to see. But there is definitely an uneasy undercurrent to it for me.
posted by valrus at 12:20 PM on May 5 [8 favorites]
They're not dogs. They're grown men. Did anybody fret over the possibility of Marilyn Manson killing Gregg Alexander? Unless Suge Knight somehow stands to profit from their deaths, I think Drake and Lamar are going to be okay. Drake's career may not fare as well.
posted by The Manwich Horror at 12:47 PM on May 5 [2 favorites]
posted by The Manwich Horror at 12:47 PM on May 5 [2 favorites]
Basically I agree with the ringer article, but the basic urge to rubberneck at petty gossip (especially after the Pusha T episode had such a wildly entertaining public info reveal) is too compelling to reject. So I'm hooked, and having a great time, but I'm not thrilled about it.
(Also there's a relative dearth of hater songs in the world! Next time I really despise someone, I'm sure "I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk I hate the way that you dress" will be drifting through my mind.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 12:54 PM on May 5
(Also there's a relative dearth of hater songs in the world! Next time I really despise someone, I'm sure "I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk I hate the way that you dress" will be drifting through my mind.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 12:54 PM on May 5
"Next time I really despise someone, I'm sure "I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk I hate the way that you dress" will be drifting through my mind.)"
when i heard that line all i could think of was this classic video
"His hair? wack! his gear, wack! his jewelry, wack! his foot stance, wack! the way he talks, wack! the that he doesn't even like to smile, wack! me, i'm tight as fuck!"
posted by atom128 at 1:19 PM on May 5 [1 favorite]
when i heard that line all i could think of was this classic video
"His hair? wack! his gear, wack! his jewelry, wack! his foot stance, wack! the way he talks, wack! the that he doesn't even like to smile, wack! me, i'm tight as fuck!"
posted by atom128 at 1:19 PM on May 5 [1 favorite]
perhaps mastodon will back off its obsession about whether drake likes a thing or not
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 1:48 PM on May 5
posted by Rev. Irreverent Revenant at 1:48 PM on May 5
I saw a comment somewhere comparing "meet the grahams" to "Hey Jude," but so much more vicious and haunted (so I guess more like John's "How Do You Sleep?" ).
I'm sure the keyfabe of beef, like all artistic expression, lets artists lie and tell the truth at the same time - overstate their case, oversimplify, and hit some highs they might not have hit. And I notice it also seems to be a thing among artists who have "made it" and are maybe coasting a bit - like when you're not a big deal yet, you've got a lot of inspiration in the grounded reality first of being pre-successful, then of struggling with burgeoning success and fame. Having something to work against seems like it bring some amazing things out of people (not that Black American rappers need much extra to work against, given America).
But Kendrick seems to be taking this somewhere bigger - I saw people comparing this to when Hannibal Burris started talking about Cosby in his standup sets, a few years before things started getting more serious for Cosby. Like some beef is just "I'm cool, you're not"; or then there's maybe more intense/personal things, like the ethics of authorship ("you use a ghostwriter!") or appropriation - Kendrick saying Drake's not Black enough to use the n-word, Drake saying Kendrick markets himself to white audiences. Then there's personal/family stuff, like Drake saying Kendrick's not going to marry his wife, or Drake saying Kendrick's a deadbeat dad. But Kendrick saying Drake should be locked up for being a pedophile in "Not Like Us" - like this isn't beef, this is charges.
All of which is to say, that makes it harder for me to feel like this is just art and theater, or to consume it as entertainment. In "Family Matters," Drake dismisses Kendrick as someone who poses as an activist to get fame, whereas Kendrick seems to be behaving like an activist, raising the stakes of the beef to one of fighting injustice. So, like, what next? Are just more songs just going to be enough? If what Kendrick's saying is true, doesn't that mean Drake has to account for things? Is it? Will he?
posted by nightcoast at 1:49 PM on May 5 [5 favorites]
I'm sure the keyfabe of beef, like all artistic expression, lets artists lie and tell the truth at the same time - overstate their case, oversimplify, and hit some highs they might not have hit. And I notice it also seems to be a thing among artists who have "made it" and are maybe coasting a bit - like when you're not a big deal yet, you've got a lot of inspiration in the grounded reality first of being pre-successful, then of struggling with burgeoning success and fame. Having something to work against seems like it bring some amazing things out of people (not that Black American rappers need much extra to work against, given America).
But Kendrick seems to be taking this somewhere bigger - I saw people comparing this to when Hannibal Burris started talking about Cosby in his standup sets, a few years before things started getting more serious for Cosby. Like some beef is just "I'm cool, you're not"; or then there's maybe more intense/personal things, like the ethics of authorship ("you use a ghostwriter!") or appropriation - Kendrick saying Drake's not Black enough to use the n-word, Drake saying Kendrick markets himself to white audiences. Then there's personal/family stuff, like Drake saying Kendrick's not going to marry his wife, or Drake saying Kendrick's a deadbeat dad. But Kendrick saying Drake should be locked up for being a pedophile in "Not Like Us" - like this isn't beef, this is charges.
All of which is to say, that makes it harder for me to feel like this is just art and theater, or to consume it as entertainment. In "Family Matters," Drake dismisses Kendrick as someone who poses as an activist to get fame, whereas Kendrick seems to be behaving like an activist, raising the stakes of the beef to one of fighting injustice. So, like, what next? Are just more songs just going to be enough? If what Kendrick's saying is true, doesn't that mean Drake has to account for things? Is it? Will he?
posted by nightcoast at 1:49 PM on May 5 [5 favorites]
perhaps mastodon will back off its obsession about whether drake likes a thing or not
That is happening to some extent, with Drake being displaced by either Geordi LaForge or Sayori from Doki Doki Literature Club in that meme niche. I'm sure that Drake being more widely known as a creep is part of the reason for that shift.
posted by mscibing at 3:06 PM on May 5
That is happening to some extent, with Drake being displaced by either Geordi LaForge or Sayori from Doki Doki Literature Club in that meme niche. I'm sure that Drake being more widely known as a creep is part of the reason for that shift.
posted by mscibing at 3:06 PM on May 5
There's something really uncomfortable, just to name one thing, about the song Meet the Grahams. Drake directly addresses different members of Drake's family...
The stuff addressed to Drake's son and to the alleged daughter....whew.
In an unsurprising but not great note, there's an undercurrent of homophobia running through some of this, too. You can maybe see it at 4:27 in Kendrick's "euphoria" (includes lyrics), and also from folks like Metro - called out as a lame rapper by Drake in "Family Matters" - who are taking joy in digging up clips of a young Drake playing a closeted gay kid hiding gay porn mags in his locker in an old, strange black and white student film. Metro's going all in on that stuff.
posted by mediareport at 3:30 PM on May 5 [1 favorite]
The stuff addressed to Drake's son and to the alleged daughter....whew.
In an unsurprising but not great note, there's an undercurrent of homophobia running through some of this, too. You can maybe see it at 4:27 in Kendrick's "euphoria" (includes lyrics), and also from folks like Metro - called out as a lame rapper by Drake in "Family Matters" - who are taking joy in digging up clips of a young Drake playing a closeted gay kid hiding gay porn mags in his locker in an old, strange black and white student film. Metro's going all in on that stuff.
posted by mediareport at 3:30 PM on May 5 [1 favorite]
Report from a senior (grade 7/8) school in Scarborough: kids are siding with Kendrick Lamar.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:04 PM on May 5
posted by warriorqueen at 5:04 PM on May 5
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posted by brainwane at 7:10 AM on May 5 [3 favorites]